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Re. "commitment of sustainability" Dubai is a city of over 3-million in the middle of the Arabian desert. They have air-conditioned bus stops, even though they

by mrpopo 6y ago

Re. "commitment of sustainability" Dubai is a city of over 3-million in the middle of the Arabian desert. They have air-conditioned bus stops, even though they are under-utilized because everyone drives. Nothing in Dubai is sustainable. Changing LED lamps is Dubai in the name of sustainability is the very embodiment of greenwashing. This is cool tech, but it's absolutely pointless. Edit: I didn't mention the elephant in the room that the entire country's economy is based on cheap fossil fuel extraction.

samstave 6y ago
They are more than likely just trying to lower the overall power sink that the city pulls as it grows. Obviously the massive buildings and projects are going to be using a shit-ton of power and I don't know where dubai gets its power from - but it is most likely limited... so this is a good thing for that infrastructure. I have a friend who lives in dubai, Ill ask her about where their power comes from as well.. I wonder how many datacenters are in dubai. We bought a new house this year, and replaced all the lights with LED lights - and our power bill is really low. in 2001 when the Enron fiasco happened, I received a power bill for $900 for one month, and my usage behavior didn't change from previous months. It was during the dot com crash and I wasn't working - and I couldnt pay the bill had my power shut off and had to borrow money from my parents to pay the criminals. So I am very power conscious...
- Havoc 6y ago
  > I have a friend who lives in dubai, Ill ask her about where their power comes from as well.. Oil as well I believe. Also the water is reverse osmosis derived. Which also requires a fair bit of power
- kissickas 6y ago
  One underreported angle of the blockade of Qatar was the fact that Qatar continued to supply the UAE with natural gas throughout the several-year affair. > It pumps around 2 Bcm of gas per day to the UAE. http://www.gasprocessingnews.com/news/qatar-has-no-plan-to-shut-dolphin-gas-pipeline-to-uae-despite-rift.aspx http://www.gasprocessingnews.com/news/qatar-has-no-plan-to-s...
  - samstave 6y ago
    Can you explain more the logic behind this; So Qatar was being punished for supplying natural gas to UAE? Why and by whom? Also why is Yemen being genocided by the sauds with US MIC weapons? (When I worked at this RFID company - and we were bought by Lockheed - several muslim employees quit and said "we will not work with a company that sells weapons to kill arabs/muslims) Also why are Uyigar children being raped and beaten and murdered in China? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD.???
- avh02 6y ago
  lol i lived there for a few years - these bulbs are the least of their energy waste. outdoor air conditioning at bars was not as wild as you'd think (it wasn't _normal_ but it was common). Also, the flat rate on your power bill is 5% of annual rent (split over 12 months) - it was a hidden tax that was 3/4 of (at least my) power bill. so i don't see how they're shaving 90%, unless they mean the variable part. In which case my water heater (in non-summer months cos tap water was HOOOTTTT), washing machine, fridge, etc, begged to differ. Air con was a separate bill due to district cooling.
mobilio 6y ago
And this is next level of insanity: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1094797/Worlds-refrigerated-BEACH-built-luxury-hotel-Dubai.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1094797/Worl... Beach with cooling system because it's TOO HOT on summer! PS: I was 15 years there and saw that you're wrote. Other example - stable for expensive horses with AC.
- llampx 6y ago
  Meanwhile in Germany we don't even let restaurants use outdoor patio heaters in the winter, at least in certain cities. And we have the highest electricity costs even if it shoots Elektromobilität in the foot.
  - utucuro 6y ago
    Germany has a very weird relationship with clean energy to begin with. I always found the stance against nuclear energy there anti-scientific in origin... Phaseout instead of better understanding and development...
    - llampx 6y ago
      Merkel went with popular opinion at the time, which was very much against nuclear power. I still see "Atomkraft? NEIN!" stickers in places. Yes I agree that Germany has a weird relationship with science. Homeopathy is very big here. Same with plant-based remedies, which are sold (and recommended!) along with allopathic medicines in pharmacies by pharmacists. Nothing wrong with plant-based nature remedies, but they don't get the rigorous testing that allopathic medicines get.
- FDSGSG 6y ago
  They couldn't find anyone to build such a system, so it wasn't ever attempted.
pivo 6y ago
> the entire country's economy is based on cheap fossil fuel extraction. I'm not sure that's true anymore. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Dubai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Dubai) oil now accounts for only 1% of their GDP.
- mrpopo 6y ago
  The country's economy is based on petrol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emi.... At least 46%. Maybe Dubai managed to diversify its economy with tourism and what-else but it's rather obvious to understand that such a city cannot thrive on its own (without an extensive, petroleum-based food/energy delivery system).
- totalZero 6y ago
  Dubai is one part of the UAE, itself an extremely small place. The vast majority of the economy of the UAE is based on petroleum. If you consider that tourism and construction are conducted on the back of "wonders" and infrastructure that came about due to the petroleum industry, that majority gets larger. If you consider that Dubai's existence as a "financial hub" is entirely predicated upon the petroleum resource trade including shipping and refining, that majority balloons even further. "Before oil was discovered in the 1950s the UAE's economy was dependent on fishing and a declining pearl industry. But since oil exports began in 1962, the country's society and economy have been transformed." (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703998 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703998) The question is, do you believe the economy of Dubai would decrease by more than 1% if all petroleum business within the UAE were halted tomorrow? I think it's clear that yes, the economy would react significantly. That 1% number comes from a two-year-old shill piece from Bloomberg (click through the Wikipedia citation if you don't believe me) that doesn't show its data or the breakdown by sector for all of Dubai's GDP.
fy20 6y ago
Everyone has to start somewhere right? Surely it's better to have a public transport system under utilized (so there are enough vehicles to meet demand) than over utilized (so everyone is crammed on like sardines)? A quick Google search would show that oil accounts for less than 1% of Dubai's (which is not a country btw) GDP, which is less than the US on both a percentage and total monetary amount (adjusted for population) basis.
- mrpopo 6y ago
  This is not how you start. If you try to optimize the loading time of your website front-page, look at optimizing the compression of the 100MB video that's auto-loading (or even better, removing it), not the 1kB logo. If you ever feel good shaving off a few bytes from the logo, your work is literally bulls*t. We live in a climate emergency, there's no time for shaving a few watts to feel good while being still allowed to live in air-conditioned palaces in the middle of the desert.
  - diebeforei485 6y ago
    > while being still allowed to live in air-conditioned palaces in the middle of the desert. Nobody needs permission to live comfortably where they're at. It is far more sustainable to live in a warm climate, with electric cooling (keeping in mind electricity comes from cleaner sources like nuclear and solar) vs living in a cold climate with gas heating.
    - mrpopo 6y ago
      > Nobody needs permission to live comfortably where they're at. You don't need a palace, a AC-cooled beach and a couple Bentleys to live comfortably. The people in the UAE that are using problematic amounts of fossil fuels are not just "living comfortably". Point being, it would reduce power consumption probably 2 orders of magnitudes more to stop cooling down beaches and pools than to switch a bunch of lights to ultra-efficient LEDs. > It is far more sustainable to live in a warm climate, with electric cooling (keeping in mind electricity comes from cleaner sources like nuclear and solar) vs living in a cold climate with gas heating. You forgot to mention the world "palace". It is far more energy-efficient to heat 40m2 per person than it is to cool down 400m2 per person. You are also conveniently ignoring reality. The UAE electricity production is 99% fossil fuels (mainly petrol/gas). It is also possible to live in a cold climate with electric heating (regular electric or heat pumps). Most northern countries are much more advanced in this area.
diebeforei485 6y ago
It's probably more sustainable than most US metro areas. Look at stats like VMT per day, household gas usage, and keep in mind the US is also a fossil fuel exporter.

by mrpopo 6y ago

samstave 6y ago

They are more than likely just trying to lower the overall power sink that the city pulls as it grows. Obviously the massive buildings and projects are going to be using a shit-ton of power and I don't know where dubai gets its power from - but it is most likely limited... so this is a good thing for that infrastructure. I have a friend who lives in dubai, Ill ask her about where their power comes from as well.. I wonder how many datacenters are in dubai. We bought a new house this year, and replaced all the lights with LED lights - and our power bill is really low. in 2001 when the Enron fiasco happened, I received a power bill for $900 for one month, and my usage behavior didn't change from previous months. It was during the dot com crash and I wasn't working - and I couldnt pay the bill had my power shut off and had to borrow money from my parents to pay the criminals. So I am very power conscious...

Havoc 6y ago
> I have a friend who lives in dubai, Ill ask her about where their power comes from as well.. Oil as well I believe. Also the water is reverse osmosis derived. Which also requires a fair bit of power
kissickas 6y ago
One underreported angle of the blockade of Qatar was the fact that Qatar continued to supply the UAE with natural gas throughout the several-year affair. > It pumps around 2 Bcm of gas per day to the UAE. http://www.gasprocessingnews.com/news/qatar-has-no-plan-to-shut-dolphin-gas-pipeline-to-uae-despite-rift.aspx http://www.gasprocessingnews.com/news/qatar-has-no-plan-to-s...
- samstave 6y ago
  Can you explain more the logic behind this; So Qatar was being punished for supplying natural gas to UAE? Why and by whom? Also why is Yemen being genocided by the sauds with US MIC weapons? (When I worked at this RFID company - and we were bought by Lockheed - several muslim employees quit and said "we will not work with a company that sells weapons to kill arabs/muslims) Also why are Uyigar children being raped and beaten and murdered in China? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD.???
avh02 6y ago
lol i lived there for a few years - these bulbs are the least of their energy waste. outdoor air conditioning at bars was not as wild as you'd think (it wasn't _normal_ but it was common). Also, the flat rate on your power bill is 5% of annual rent (split over 12 months) - it was a hidden tax that was 3/4 of (at least my) power bill. so i don't see how they're shaving 90%, unless they mean the variable part. In which case my water heater (in non-summer months cos tap water was HOOOTTTT), washing machine, fridge, etc, begged to differ. Air con was a separate bill due to district cooling.

mobilio 6y ago

And this is next level of insanity: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1094797/Worlds-refrigerated-BEACH-built-luxury-hotel-Dubai.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1094797/Worl... Beach with cooling system because it's TOO HOT on summer! PS: I was 15 years there and saw that you're wrote. Other example - stable for expensive horses with AC.

llampx 6y ago
Meanwhile in Germany we don't even let restaurants use outdoor patio heaters in the winter, at least in certain cities. And we have the highest electricity costs even if it shoots Elektromobilität in the foot.
- utucuro 6y ago
  Germany has a very weird relationship with clean energy to begin with. I always found the stance against nuclear energy there anti-scientific in origin... Phaseout instead of better understanding and development...
  - llampx 6y ago
    Merkel went with popular opinion at the time, which was very much against nuclear power. I still see "Atomkraft? NEIN!" stickers in places. Yes I agree that Germany has a weird relationship with science. Homeopathy is very big here. Same with plant-based remedies, which are sold (and recommended!) along with allopathic medicines in pharmacies by pharmacists. Nothing wrong with plant-based nature remedies, but they don't get the rigorous testing that allopathic medicines get.
FDSGSG 6y ago
They couldn't find anyone to build such a system, so it wasn't ever attempted.

pivo 6y ago

> the entire country's economy is based on cheap fossil fuel extraction. I'm not sure that's true anymore. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Dubai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Dubai) oil now accounts for only 1% of their GDP.

mrpopo 6y ago
The country's economy is based on petrol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emi.... At least 46%. Maybe Dubai managed to diversify its economy with tourism and what-else but it's rather obvious to understand that such a city cannot thrive on its own (without an extensive, petroleum-based food/energy delivery system).
totalZero 6y ago
Dubai is one part of the UAE, itself an extremely small place. The vast majority of the economy of the UAE is based on petroleum. If you consider that tourism and construction are conducted on the back of "wonders" and infrastructure that came about due to the petroleum industry, that majority gets larger. If you consider that Dubai's existence as a "financial hub" is entirely predicated upon the petroleum resource trade including shipping and refining, that majority balloons even further. "Before oil was discovered in the 1950s the UAE's economy was dependent on fishing and a declining pearl industry. But since oil exports began in 1962, the country's society and economy have been transformed." (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703998 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703998) The question is, do you believe the economy of Dubai would decrease by more than 1% if all petroleum business within the UAE were halted tomorrow? I think it's clear that yes, the economy would react significantly. That 1% number comes from a two-year-old shill piece from Bloomberg (click through the Wikipedia citation if you don't believe me) that doesn't show its data or the breakdown by sector for all of Dubai's GDP.

fy20 6y ago

Everyone has to start somewhere right? Surely it's better to have a public transport system under utilized (so there are enough vehicles to meet demand) than over utilized (so everyone is crammed on like sardines)? A quick Google search would show that oil accounts for less than 1% of Dubai's (which is not a country btw) GDP, which is less than the US on both a percentage and total monetary amount (adjusted for population) basis.

mrpopo 6y ago
This is not how you start. If you try to optimize the loading time of your website front-page, look at optimizing the compression of the 100MB video that's auto-loading (or even better, removing it), not the 1kB logo. If you ever feel good shaving off a few bytes from the logo, your work is literally bulls*t. We live in a climate emergency, there's no time for shaving a few watts to feel good while being still allowed to live in air-conditioned palaces in the middle of the desert.
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  > while being still allowed to live in air-conditioned palaces in the middle of the desert. Nobody needs permission to live comfortably where they're at. It is far more sustainable to live in a warm climate, with electric cooling (keeping in mind electricity comes from cleaner sources like nuclear and solar) vs living in a cold climate with gas heating.
  - mrpopo 6y ago
    > Nobody needs permission to live comfortably where they're at. You don't need a palace, a AC-cooled beach and a couple Bentleys to live comfortably. The people in the UAE that are using problematic amounts of fossil fuels are not just "living comfortably". Point being, it would reduce power consumption probably 2 orders of magnitudes more to stop cooling down beaches and pools than to switch a bunch of lights to ultra-efficient LEDs. > It is far more sustainable to live in a warm climate, with electric cooling (keeping in mind electricity comes from cleaner sources like nuclear and solar) vs living in a cold climate with gas heating. You forgot to mention the world "palace". It is far more energy-efficient to heat 40m2 per person than it is to cool down 400m2 per person. You are also conveniently ignoring reality. The UAE electricity production is 99% fossil fuels (mainly petrol/gas). It is also possible to live in a cold climate with electric heating (regular electric or heat pumps). Most northern countries are much more advanced in this area.

diebeforei485 6y ago

It's probably more sustainable than most US metro areas. Look at stats like VMT per day, household gas usage, and keep in mind the US is also a fossil fuel exporter.