5 ms·

I have never understood why people get so angry at assumptions by association. It is a very natural process that people do. If you find out that someone is best

I have never understood why people get so angry at assumptions by association. It is a very natural process that people do. If you find out that someone is best friends with someone you despise, you will automatically assume the worst about them.

xupybd 6y ago
Best friends are not the ones being targeted here. You have examples such a Don Lemon trying to tar all Republican voters as being in league with the neo Nazis https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6223009033001 https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6223009033001 . Loose associations don't mean you are in agreement with people on every possible issue. I agree with Hitler that public sanitation is important but consider him to be one of the most evil men to ever exist. It's just not a good way to make a judgement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
- warkdarrior 6y ago
  So would you vote for Hitler because of his public sanitation policies, while overlooking his other evil policies? Because this is what Republican voters seem to be doing: they vote for Trump because they like some of his policies (e.g., lower taxes) while overlooking his other policies (open racism, open misogyny, anti-science, etc.).
  - xupybd 6y ago
    Well I would agree that voting for someone with racist or misogynistic policies would be a problem, however I've not seen any policies or laws that were. You are welcome to prove me wrong. As such I can excuse people for voting for Trump. Especially in a two party system. I suspect many simply always vote Republican and despite Trump's brash public persona they thought he was their best option.
    - tstrimple 6y ago
      One example of many: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/29/north-carolina-voter-id-law-struck-down https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/29/north-caroli... > A federal court on Friday struck down North Carolina voting laws it said were enacted with “discriminatory intent”, targeting African Americans “with almost surgical precision”. > Plaintiffs in the suit welcomed what one called “a stinging rebuke” to the Republican-controlled state government, representatives of which questioned the political affiliations of the judges involved and said they would appeal the decision to the US supreme court, because it “ignores legal precedent”.
      - xupybd 6y ago
        How is this an example of Trump being racist? Wasn't this even before he was elected?
    - toiletfuneral 6y ago
      Let me ask you, why do racists LOVE Trump? I’m from a rural area, actual racists don’t really like the GOP but think Trump is their savior. Can you explain why?
    - alsetmusic 6y ago
      A Muslim travel ban comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769
  - concordDance 6y ago
    > his other policies (open racism, open misogyny, anti-science, etc.). The vast majority of people who vote for him do not think he has policies with these traits. Describing his policies as "open racism", "open sexism", etc requires definitions of those terms so broad that most of the American population (and the vast majority of the world population) would also be guilty of them.
    - simonh 6y ago
      Looking at his public statements about women I think it's clear he is a misogynist but mainly in his personal dealings. It's not really a feature of his politics. As for racism I think the Muslim Ban was a case of explicitly racist policy. I know the Supreme Court disagreed, but frankly they are wrong on this.
      - nec4b 6y ago
        Being a Muslim has nothing to do with a race. You have people of all races who are Muslims.
        simonh 6y ago
        I don't see that it makes any difference. Is discrimination based on either acceptable? If not why does it matter?
        f1refly 6y ago
        1. You're moving goalposts 2. If discrimination by religion is not acceptable by your standards, why should discrimination based on politics be?
        simonh 6y ago
        Goal posts? Maybe, but I don't think enough that it actually matters. I note you didn't answer my question. Nobody is being discriminated against based on politics. They are being penalised for their personal actions as individual citizens. I have commented on this in more detail elsewhere on this discussion.
- pelliphant 6y ago
  I would usually agree that everyone who votes for a party that I consider to be evil, isn't necesseraly evil. But if someone voted for trump 2020, it is very reasonable to say that that person is against democracy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
asiachick 6y ago
Following your line of reasoning, all Muslims are evil because a few associated Muslims did bad things. > If you find out that someone is best friends with someone you despise, you will automatically assume the worst about them. Or maybe your friend has knows them better, or understands them better, or compartmentalises I don't like that my dad likes Trump but he's still my dad and I still love him. It reminds me a little of the West Wing episode "The Supremes" where everyone assumes the conservative supreme court judge they are considering giving a seat is the height of evil only to find that he's a reasonable person who can actually make valid arguments from the right's pov as is not just "guilty because he's on the right"

xupybd 6y ago

Best friends are not the ones being targeted here. You have examples such a Don Lemon trying to tar all Republican voters as being in league with the neo Nazis https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6223009033001 https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6223009033001 . Loose associations don't mean you are in agreement with people on every possible issue. I agree with Hitler that public sanitation is important but consider him to be one of the most evil men to ever exist. It's just not a good way to make a judgement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

warkdarrior 6y ago
So would you vote for Hitler because of his public sanitation policies, while overlooking his other evil policies? Because this is what Republican voters seem to be doing: they vote for Trump because they like some of his policies (e.g., lower taxes) while overlooking his other policies (open racism, open misogyny, anti-science, etc.).
- xupybd 6y ago
  Well I would agree that voting for someone with racist or misogynistic policies would be a problem, however I've not seen any policies or laws that were. You are welcome to prove me wrong. As such I can excuse people for voting for Trump. Especially in a two party system. I suspect many simply always vote Republican and despite Trump's brash public persona they thought he was their best option.
  - tstrimple 6y ago
    One example of many: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/29/north-carolina-voter-id-law-struck-down https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/29/north-caroli... > A federal court on Friday struck down North Carolina voting laws it said were enacted with “discriminatory intent”, targeting African Americans “with almost surgical precision”. > Plaintiffs in the suit welcomed what one called “a stinging rebuke” to the Republican-controlled state government, representatives of which questioned the political affiliations of the judges involved and said they would appeal the decision to the US supreme court, because it “ignores legal precedent”.
    - xupybd 6y ago
      How is this an example of Trump being racist? Wasn't this even before he was elected?
  - toiletfuneral 6y ago
    Let me ask you, why do racists LOVE Trump? I’m from a rural area, actual racists don’t really like the GOP but think Trump is their savior. Can you explain why?
  - alsetmusic 6y ago
    A Muslim travel ban comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769
- concordDance 6y ago
  > his other policies (open racism, open misogyny, anti-science, etc.). The vast majority of people who vote for him do not think he has policies with these traits. Describing his policies as "open racism", "open sexism", etc requires definitions of those terms so broad that most of the American population (and the vast majority of the world population) would also be guilty of them.
  - simonh 6y ago
    Looking at his public statements about women I think it's clear he is a misogynist but mainly in his personal dealings. It's not really a feature of his politics. As for racism I think the Muslim Ban was a case of explicitly racist policy. I know the Supreme Court disagreed, but frankly they are wrong on this.
    - nec4b 6y ago
      Being a Muslim has nothing to do with a race. You have people of all races who are Muslims.
      - simonh 6y ago
        I don't see that it makes any difference. Is discrimination based on either acceptable? If not why does it matter?
        f1refly 6y ago
        1. You're moving goalposts 2. If discrimination by religion is not acceptable by your standards, why should discrimination based on politics be?
        simonh 6y ago
        Goal posts? Maybe, but I don't think enough that it actually matters. I note you didn't answer my question. Nobody is being discriminated against based on politics. They are being penalised for their personal actions as individual citizens. I have commented on this in more detail elsewhere on this discussion.
pelliphant 6y ago
I would usually agree that everyone who votes for a party that I consider to be evil, isn't necesseraly evil. But if someone voted for trump 2020, it is very reasonable to say that that person is against democracy.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

asiachick 6y ago

Following your line of reasoning, all Muslims are evil because a few associated Muslims did bad things. > If you find out that someone is best friends with someone you despise, you will automatically assume the worst about them. Or maybe your friend has knows them better, or understands them better, or compartmentalises I don't like that my dad likes Trump but he's still my dad and I still love him. It reminds me a little of the West Wing episode "The Supremes" where everyone assumes the conservative supreme court judge they are considering giving a seat is the height of evil only to find that he's a reasonable person who can actually make valid arguments from the right's pov as is not just "guilty because he's on the right"