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My understanding of the world suggests that the value of gold and the value of bitcoin are equally "imaginary". Should humans not spend energy on their imaginat

My understanding of the world suggests that the value of gold and the value of bitcoin are equally "imaginary". Should humans not spend energy on their imaginations?

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Except gold is intrinsically useful. You can use it to create physical items that do things. Bitcoin's only value is imaginary.
- ddek 6y ago
  Well, yes, but that completely misses the point. Bitcoin is currency, and you can reason that all currencies solely have imaginary value. We only value dollar bills because of an intricate system of promises that assures us we can exchange them for things. Bitcoin is no different.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    Gold is largely not currency, so I don't think this is a good defense of OP's argument. You can compare the environmental impact of physical currency to Bitcoin if you want, but I don't think it will work out in Bitcoin's favor.
    - ddek 6y ago
      Ooh I only disagree about bitcoin having imaginary value. I believe a bitcoin has real value, because we have chosen it to have real value, much like we collectively chose the USD to mean something. I don't have any real opinion on the environmental effect of bitcoin, if we do that then maybe we should start thinking about the environmental effects of javascript.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        Sounds like we’re on the same page? All I’m trying to say is that gold vs. Bitcoin is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
- cassepipe 6y ago
  Usefulness is quite relative. Do we really need jewelry to signal out social status to others ? I personally don't think so. (Industry only uses small amounts of gold)
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    That's not quite what I'm saying. Gold is intrinsically useful because you can do things with it, regardless of what those things are. Whereas literally the only thing you can do with Bitcoin is trade it to someone else.
    - mr_woozy 6y ago
      What can you do with Music? Art? Movies? all of these things are inherently not about intrinsic utility but they all weigh heavily into human societies. If I can utilize Bitcoin as a store of value against inflation or as free speech money or even just as a middle finger to the USD then it has utility.
    - cassepipe 6y ago
      Means of exchange has a use value.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        Anything can be a means of exchange. Bitcoin just happens to have zero other uses.
        cassepipe 6y ago
        Not anything can be a means of exchange. For that it has to have some physical properties (transportability, fungibility for example) and social properties (value !) or else you are relying on third party procedures to keep count ... or a public unfalsifiable record like a blockchain.

My understanding of the world suggests that the value of gold and the value of bitcoin are equally "imaginary". Should humans not spend energy on their imaginations?

jakelazaroff 6y ago

Except gold is intrinsically useful. You can use it to create physical items that do things. Bitcoin's only value is imaginary.

ddek 6y ago
Well, yes, but that completely misses the point. Bitcoin is currency, and you can reason that all currencies solely have imaginary value. We only value dollar bills because of an intricate system of promises that assures us we can exchange them for things. Bitcoin is no different.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  Gold is largely not currency, so I don't think this is a good defense of OP's argument. You can compare the environmental impact of physical currency to Bitcoin if you want, but I don't think it will work out in Bitcoin's favor.
  - ddek 6y ago
    Ooh I only disagree about bitcoin having imaginary value. I believe a bitcoin has real value, because we have chosen it to have real value, much like we collectively chose the USD to mean something. I don't have any real opinion on the environmental effect of bitcoin, if we do that then maybe we should start thinking about the environmental effects of javascript.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      Sounds like we’re on the same page? All I’m trying to say is that gold vs. Bitcoin is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
cassepipe 6y ago
Usefulness is quite relative. Do we really need jewelry to signal out social status to others ? I personally don't think so. (Industry only uses small amounts of gold)
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  That's not quite what I'm saying. Gold is intrinsically useful because you can do things with it, regardless of what those things are. Whereas literally the only thing you can do with Bitcoin is trade it to someone else.
  - mr_woozy 6y ago
    What can you do with Music? Art? Movies? all of these things are inherently not about intrinsic utility but they all weigh heavily into human societies. If I can utilize Bitcoin as a store of value against inflation or as free speech money or even just as a middle finger to the USD then it has utility.
  - cassepipe 6y ago
    Means of exchange has a use value.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      Anything can be a means of exchange. Bitcoin just happens to have zero other uses.
      - cassepipe 6y ago
        Not anything can be a means of exchange. For that it has to have some physical properties (transportability, fungibility for example) and social properties (value !) or else you are relying on third party procedures to keep count ... or a public unfalsifiable record like a blockchain.