2 ms·

Science tells us no such thing, and when you're talking the ultimate fate of the universe then there is no consensus, just different theories. There's the big f

by jmfldn 6y ago

Science tells us no such thing, and when you're talking the ultimate fate of the universe then there is no consensus, just different theories. There's the big freeze, the big rip, the big crunch... all manner of ideas. Then there is the universe itself. Well what is that? What about multiverses etc? Just to take one such theory emerging from heat death ideas. Once the fundamental touchstones of mass and structure disappear, scale also disappears. The infinitely large universe becomes physically identical to an infinitesimal one, and is reborn in a new Big Bang — with all the mass and energy of the previous universe once again jammed together into a tiny space. These sort of cyclic cosmology ideas are held by prominent physicists including the recent Nobel prize winner, Roger Penrose. Like all us, I have no idea what is true but its hardly a closed subject.

orbgirlgi98 6y ago
Scientific observation has ruled out the Big Crunch. The Big Rip happens in the remote future if the equation of state parameter w is less than -1, where w is the ratio of dark energy pressure to its energy density. If this is true it is only a minor detail of the Heat Death as far as life within this universe is concerned: all biological life and biological consciousness will end whether the Big Rip happens before the Heat Death or does not happen. (If there is non-biological Life after Death as various religions maintain, then consciousness will survive the Heat Death, but otherwise it will not.) The Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC) of Penrose is speculative and has zero strong empirical evidence to support it. They've studied the CMB but it has made no testable and verifiable predictions. The astrophysics community at large sees the observational inevitability of the end of the universe as we know it: the universe is flying apart and cooling, and nothing can change this.
- jmfldn 6y ago
  The universe flying apart and cooling doesn't contradict Penrose, it's part of the theory just to address that point. An infinite structureless, massless universe is a singularity, or so the theory goes. Assuming this was "settled" (whatever that means in science let alone theoretical physics), mavericks like Penrose are frequently proven right. 'Kuhnian' paradigm shifts are the norm in science, particularly in a field like this. Expect many more...
  - orbgirlgi98 6y ago
    Penrose's CCC predicts all biological life on our planet and all biological life on all other worlds within our universe will end, just like the conventional Heat Death. To point out this fact - that all biological life is doomed to die - was the purpose of my original post. We can talk about nuclear war, climate change, hostile aliens, and other short term threats to human survival. We will survive these short term threats or we won't. But in the long term it is 100% certain we don't survive. We only survive the Heat Death if it turns out we are living in a Matrix of sorts and the computers of the Matrix are hosted in a datacenter universe that is truly eternal, unlike our universe which will die the Heat Death. Or we survive the Heat Death if there is an eternal God who gives us a post-biological existence after the Death of our universe. My point is that present humans and far-future humans are in the same boat as prehistoric humans: we all must learn to face death bravely. Future humans will never have permanent biological immortality, because our universe does not allow it. Neither does Penrose's universe. Furthermore, Penrose's only testable prediction (CMB concentric rings caused by past reboot of universe) proved unable to be replicated by three independent attempts. Einstein's theory in contrast said the orbit of the planet Mercury should have an observable precession if true: so we pointed our telescopes at Mercury and lo, Mercury did indeed precess just as his set of equations said it would.
    - jmfldn 6y ago
      Sure we will all die, assuming humanity was alive at the end. To be specific about my objection, you said that this event will not repeat and I'm saying, I'm not sure and neither are certain others. An eternal recurrence is not ruled out. Nothing would survive a reboot though, sure. To be clear, assuming there was an infinite reboot sequence I'm not saying that there would be life again, let alone intelligent life. I'm just making a statement on the fate of the universe.

by jmfldn 6y ago

orbgirlgi98 6y ago

Scientific observation has ruled out the Big Crunch. The Big Rip happens in the remote future if the equation of state parameter w is less than -1, where w is the ratio of dark energy pressure to its energy density. If this is true it is only a minor detail of the Heat Death as far as life within this universe is concerned: all biological life and biological consciousness will end whether the Big Rip happens before the Heat Death or does not happen. (If there is non-biological Life after Death as various religions maintain, then consciousness will survive the Heat Death, but otherwise it will not.) The Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC) of Penrose is speculative and has zero strong empirical evidence to support it. They've studied the CMB but it has made no testable and verifiable predictions. The astrophysics community at large sees the observational inevitability of the end of the universe as we know it: the universe is flying apart and cooling, and nothing can change this.

jmfldn 6y ago
The universe flying apart and cooling doesn't contradict Penrose, it's part of the theory just to address that point. An infinite structureless, massless universe is a singularity, or so the theory goes. Assuming this was "settled" (whatever that means in science let alone theoretical physics), mavericks like Penrose are frequently proven right. 'Kuhnian' paradigm shifts are the norm in science, particularly in a field like this. Expect many more...
- orbgirlgi98 6y ago
  Penrose's CCC predicts all biological life on our planet and all biological life on all other worlds within our universe will end, just like the conventional Heat Death. To point out this fact - that all biological life is doomed to die - was the purpose of my original post. We can talk about nuclear war, climate change, hostile aliens, and other short term threats to human survival. We will survive these short term threats or we won't. But in the long term it is 100% certain we don't survive. We only survive the Heat Death if it turns out we are living in a Matrix of sorts and the computers of the Matrix are hosted in a datacenter universe that is truly eternal, unlike our universe which will die the Heat Death. Or we survive the Heat Death if there is an eternal God who gives us a post-biological existence after the Death of our universe. My point is that present humans and far-future humans are in the same boat as prehistoric humans: we all must learn to face death bravely. Future humans will never have permanent biological immortality, because our universe does not allow it. Neither does Penrose's universe. Furthermore, Penrose's only testable prediction (CMB concentric rings caused by past reboot of universe) proved unable to be replicated by three independent attempts. Einstein's theory in contrast said the orbit of the planet Mercury should have an observable precession if true: so we pointed our telescopes at Mercury and lo, Mercury did indeed precess just as his set of equations said it would.
  - jmfldn 6y ago
    Sure we will all die, assuming humanity was alive at the end. To be specific about my objection, you said that this event will not repeat and I'm saying, I'm not sure and neither are certain others. An eternal recurrence is not ruled out. Nothing would survive a reboot though, sure. To be clear, assuming there was an infinite reboot sequence I'm not saying that there would be life again, let alone intelligent life. I'm just making a statement on the fate of the universe.