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Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable. In the companies I've worked here in Europe,

Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable. In the companies I've worked here in Europe, such discussions just would not happen in a cooperate chat room.

odiroot 6y ago
Yes, we don't take calling anyone "Nazi" lightly. Well, at least level-headed people don't. It's disrespectful to the people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the real Nazis.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I’d much rather be warned that their successors were involved in an ongoing terrorist attack in the immediate vicinity than tiptoe around the issue to avoid making conservatives uncomfortable.
  - pothos 6y ago
    All over social media (https://twitter.com/jlazaroff https://twitter.com/jlazaroff) and on this very website, you rail against white people, you rail against white people having too much wealth, you rail against white people having too much power, and you rail against white people having too much speech. Yet consistently, you become furious whenever anyone makes a similar assertion about Jewish people. Why should non-Jewish people continue to tolerate your tribal behavior? You're basically a walking, talking Nazi caricature of a subversive Jew. You can do better.
  - dustinmoris 6y ago
    > avoid making conservatives uncomfortable Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Europe even the most conservative person would still be in favour or public healthcare, pro gun laws and support many things like rent control or minimum wage. If you try to associate conservatism with American far right groups it only shows your own narrow minded "conservative" understanding of the world.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      We are discussing a conflict between American employees in a US-based office about an event involving American residents. It should be clear that I’m specifically referring to American conservatives.
      - dustinmoris 6y ago
        Conservative Jews were first vindicated for being Jewish in the 1940s and now the same people are being vindicated by the next ignorant group for being conservative, because people like think it is ok to blame an entire group of people based on personal, religious or political beliefs which do no harm. Conservatism isn’t harmful. Conservative Jews also hate Nazis.
        jakelazaroff 6y ago
        I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. I’m simply saying that (American) conservatives get uncomfortable if you point out how often they end up standing beside literal neo-Nazis, which you can easily see on display in the comments for this article. > Conservative Jews also hate Nazis. Tell that to Stephen Miller. Also, vindicated means “proven correct”.
    - analyst74 6y ago
      Fun fact, in China, conservatism tend to be related to old-school, Mao-era communism, which is probably considered far-far-left extremists in the free world.
      - goldcd 6y ago
        The extreme sides actually join together around the back. Just the reasoning that tends to get a bit muddy - for race/country/flag/god/people. I think the line tends to be when somebody starts mentioning 'the enemy' - and points to some formerly-considered-random guy nearby.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
  - tomp 6y ago
    As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I'd much rather not see words "Nazi" and "terrorist" used for protesters (or even rioters) whose intentions had nothing to do with extermination, torture, or serious attempts of coup or terrorism (cf. actual terrorist attacks by actual terrorists in Europe).
    - monocasa 6y ago
      https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631226.html https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631... The guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org). This wasn't an exaggeration, a high number of literal neo nazi leaders were present.
      - tomp 6y ago
        Treating them the same as Hitler is literally “crying wolf”. These people are closer to internet trolls then they are to 1930s Nazis.
        ryandrake 6y ago
        If Literal Hitler were in the crowd I guarantee there would be people downplaying it like this.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      These were quite literal neo-Nazis engaged in a literal terrorist attack. I really don’t understand the hand wringing over describing it accurately.
      - 6y ago
- Griffinsauce 6y ago
  This is a confusing statement. When you say "there are nazis" when there are nazis (among a bigger group) that is just a factual statement. The disrespect is in not taking the threat seriously.
  - throwaway_6142 6y ago
    But the statement wasn't meant to warn people of alleged Nazis at the rally, it was to make a derogatory remark about conservative employees at GitHub, as you all know.
blondin 6y ago
i agree with you.
Griffinsauce 6y ago
I don't think that has anything to do with being in Europe or not. The emotions and opinions exist in all workplaces. Some are just open to it and others not. The important part is being respectful and having empathy. The second employee was arguing in obvious bad faith, that apparently being accepted (to the point of the first being fired) is what should make people uncomfortable.
- togblops 6y ago
  Agree completely on the important part being respect and empathy. Agree on the second employee’s tone seeming argumentative. However, from the given information it’s not clear if the original (fired) employee remained respectful.
- mercer 6y ago
  I do feel that in the US, the workplace has a much stronger weight, and often plays a much bigger role in the employee's life. I can see how that could lead to either very explicit work/life separation, or a blurring of the two.
sam_lowry_ 6y ago
Last week in Europe, I was reprimanded by an US-based C-level exec for using the word "annoying" while asking a question about email filtering in a corporate Slack channel. Can't imagine being still employed if I used the word Nazi there. People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. None can feel safe.
- watwut 6y ago
  > People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. America is large country, half a continent. The existence of people and companies with widely different standards within it should be expected. That does not make it hypocritical. Also, you treat Nazi as slur, but it is not one. It is political group.
  - pindab0ter 6y ago
    I’m sure words can have separate meanings from their initial one.
- rudyrigot 6y ago
  When taking a group of hundreds of millions of people with the same trait (such as their nationality), it’s easiest to compartmentalize and expect them all to think the same and behave the same. So when inevitably individuals or subcultures in that group have differences, it’s easiest to call it hypocritical. I’ve been a European in American companies where saying “I don’t like that VP” in public would raise serious eyebrows, and I’ve been part of other American companies where saying “the VP Product is a fucking idiot” in public would make everyone laugh. It’s not the first time I hear GitHub fancies itself to be a bit edgy in culture, and I’m personally not into it, but it doesn’t make them hypocritical because some other guy you know, and you need to put in the same bucket, is different.
m1 6y ago
Not only uncomfortable but it’s also somewhat embarrassing. I’ve always thought GitHub would be a pretty good place to work but judging from those chats I think I would definitely avoid.
kitsune_ 6y ago
These kind of discussions happen in many work chats in Europe.

odiroot 6y ago

Yes, we don't take calling anyone "Nazi" lightly. Well, at least level-headed people don't. It's disrespectful to the people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the real Nazis.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I’d much rather be warned that their successors were involved in an ongoing terrorist attack in the immediate vicinity than tiptoe around the issue to avoid making conservatives uncomfortable.
- pothos 6y ago
  All over social media (https://twitter.com/jlazaroff https://twitter.com/jlazaroff) and on this very website, you rail against white people, you rail against white people having too much wealth, you rail against white people having too much power, and you rail against white people having too much speech. Yet consistently, you become furious whenever anyone makes a similar assertion about Jewish people. Why should non-Jewish people continue to tolerate your tribal behavior? You're basically a walking, talking Nazi caricature of a subversive Jew. You can do better.
- dustinmoris 6y ago
  > avoid making conservatives uncomfortable Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Europe even the most conservative person would still be in favour or public healthcare, pro gun laws and support many things like rent control or minimum wage. If you try to associate conservatism with American far right groups it only shows your own narrow minded "conservative" understanding of the world.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    We are discussing a conflict between American employees in a US-based office about an event involving American residents. It should be clear that I’m specifically referring to American conservatives.
    - dustinmoris 6y ago
      Conservative Jews were first vindicated for being Jewish in the 1940s and now the same people are being vindicated by the next ignorant group for being conservative, because people like think it is ok to blame an entire group of people based on personal, religious or political beliefs which do no harm. Conservatism isn’t harmful. Conservative Jews also hate Nazis.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. I’m simply saying that (American) conservatives get uncomfortable if you point out how often they end up standing beside literal neo-Nazis, which you can easily see on display in the comments for this article. > Conservative Jews also hate Nazis. Tell that to Stephen Miller. Also, vindicated means “proven correct”.
  - analyst74 6y ago
    Fun fact, in China, conservatism tend to be related to old-school, Mao-era communism, which is probably considered far-far-left extremists in the free world.
    - goldcd 6y ago
      The extreme sides actually join together around the back. Just the reasoning that tends to get a bit muddy - for race/country/flag/god/people. I think the line tends to be when somebody starts mentioning 'the enemy' - and points to some formerly-considered-random guy nearby.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
- tomp 6y ago
  As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I'd much rather not see words "Nazi" and "terrorist" used for protesters (or even rioters) whose intentions had nothing to do with extermination, torture, or serious attempts of coup or terrorism (cf. actual terrorist attacks by actual terrorists in Europe).
  - monocasa 6y ago
    https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631226.html https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631... The guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org). This wasn't an exaggeration, a high number of literal neo nazi leaders were present.
    - tomp 6y ago
      Treating them the same as Hitler is literally “crying wolf”. These people are closer to internet trolls then they are to 1930s Nazis.
      - ryandrake 6y ago
        If Literal Hitler were in the crowd I guarantee there would be people downplaying it like this.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    These were quite literal neo-Nazis engaged in a literal terrorist attack. I really don’t understand the hand wringing over describing it accurately.
    - 6y ago
Griffinsauce 6y ago
This is a confusing statement. When you say "there are nazis" when there are nazis (among a bigger group) that is just a factual statement. The disrespect is in not taking the threat seriously.
- throwaway_6142 6y ago
  But the statement wasn't meant to warn people of alleged Nazis at the rally, it was to make a derogatory remark about conservative employees at GitHub, as you all know.

blondin 6y ago

i agree with you.

Griffinsauce 6y ago

I don't think that has anything to do with being in Europe or not. The emotions and opinions exist in all workplaces. Some are just open to it and others not. The important part is being respectful and having empathy. The second employee was arguing in obvious bad faith, that apparently being accepted (to the point of the first being fired) is what should make people uncomfortable.

togblops 6y ago
Agree completely on the important part being respect and empathy. Agree on the second employee’s tone seeming argumentative. However, from the given information it’s not clear if the original (fired) employee remained respectful.
mercer 6y ago
I do feel that in the US, the workplace has a much stronger weight, and often plays a much bigger role in the employee's life. I can see how that could lead to either very explicit work/life separation, or a blurring of the two.

sam_lowry_ 6y ago

Last week in Europe, I was reprimanded by an US-based C-level exec for using the word "annoying" while asking a question about email filtering in a corporate Slack channel. Can't imagine being still employed if I used the word Nazi there. People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. None can feel safe.

watwut 6y ago
> People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. America is large country, half a continent. The existence of people and companies with widely different standards within it should be expected. That does not make it hypocritical. Also, you treat Nazi as slur, but it is not one. It is political group.
- pindab0ter 6y ago
  I’m sure words can have separate meanings from their initial one.
rudyrigot 6y ago
When taking a group of hundreds of millions of people with the same trait (such as their nationality), it’s easiest to compartmentalize and expect them all to think the same and behave the same. So when inevitably individuals or subcultures in that group have differences, it’s easiest to call it hypocritical. I’ve been a European in American companies where saying “I don’t like that VP” in public would raise serious eyebrows, and I’ve been part of other American companies where saying “the VP Product is a fucking idiot” in public would make everyone laugh. It’s not the first time I hear GitHub fancies itself to be a bit edgy in culture, and I’m personally not into it, but it doesn’t make them hypocritical because some other guy you know, and you need to put in the same bucket, is different.

m1 6y ago

Not only uncomfortable but it’s also somewhat embarrassing. I’ve always thought GitHub would be a pretty good place to work but judging from those chats I think I would definitely avoid.

kitsune_ 6y ago

These kind of discussions happen in many work chats in Europe.