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> What a crappy attitude that leads nowhere:) Erm, so we're mandating what people should do now? Yours seems to be a rather black/white view of such events, wh

> What a crappy attitude that leads nowhere:) Erm, so we're mandating what people should do now? Yours seems to be a rather black/white view of such events, when (since it involves humans) it's on a spectrum: There are people who do not want to spend their time with their work colleagues. There are people who do not want to be forced to spend with their work colleagues. There are people who dislike that unless you spend time with their work colleagues in corporate sponsored events you will be sidelines. And that's assuming that the corporate event is good at all. Which, quite frankly, most aren't.

xyzelement 6y ago
>> Erm, so we're mandating what people should do now? I am just a guy on the internet but I've been around the block so I share what I truly believe is the best advice. >> unless you spend time with their work colleagues in corporate sponsored events you will be sidelines. That's a naïve view. People don't sit in a conference room saying "ftoscano didn't come to the bar last night, let's ostracize him" - it's just that the more opportunities to bond with your team that you pass up, the worse your communication with them is (compared to what it could have been if you invested in it) which legitimately makes you less impactful at work. >> And that's assuming that the corporate event is good at all. Which, quite frankly, most aren't. Debatable but not the point. The point is that these things already exist and they are opportunities for you to build up your career (and maybe even allow yourself to have fun.) You can chose to hate it and not participate but like I said, that's strictly worse for you so why adopt that attitude?
- smolder 6y ago
  I don't mean to insult but I think your view is pretty naïve in its own way. You see the rapport built from going to the bar as an advantage that you shouldn't pass up on. In your example where failing to go to the bar makes you less impactful at work, I see a team that is doing a shitty job at team building, which will probably harm their chances of success. The blame for that can go in any and all directions, it's on everyone. If every potential detractor involved just says to themselves "this is what everyone else likes, so I'll fix my attitude and head to the bar", you can end up with several of them contorting to fit in, and then you're just cargo culting a good culture instead of really having one.
  - xyzelement 6y ago
    Smolder, I don't mean it as black and white as it sounds. Here's an analogy: If you see $5 laying on the ground, it's better for you to pick it up. That's different than saying we must structure society in a way that people are relying on finding money on the ground (which is where you are taking it.) It's OBVIOUSLY possible to have teams and employees that operate fine without these experiences. My point is that these experiences are just opportunities to make it better (like picking up the $5) so why wouldn't one try to be the kind of person who is happy to pick up the $5 rather than someone who grumbles about it?
    - fakedang 6y ago
      What inevitably happens with your approach is that people will soon gradually feel forced into taking part in bar meetings, else their "rapport" would be affected, which would have further detrimental effects down their career at that place. Hence people get herded into team building exercises for the group against their will, even though they might have zero interest or capability in such exercises. This leads to the cargoculting mentioned in the previous comment. Sure, it's good to find and pick up $5 on the street, but in this case it will inevitably lead to a place where people have to rely on finding money on the ground.

xyzelement 6y ago

>> Erm, so we're mandating what people should do now? I am just a guy on the internet but I've been around the block so I share what I truly believe is the best advice. >> unless you spend time with their work colleagues in corporate sponsored events you will be sidelines. That's a naïve view. People don't sit in a conference room saying "ftoscano didn't come to the bar last night, let's ostracize him" - it's just that the more opportunities to bond with your team that you pass up, the worse your communication with them is (compared to what it could have been if you invested in it) which legitimately makes you less impactful at work. >> And that's assuming that the corporate event is good at all. Which, quite frankly, most aren't. Debatable but not the point. The point is that these things already exist and they are opportunities for you to build up your career (and maybe even allow yourself to have fun.) You can chose to hate it and not participate but like I said, that's strictly worse for you so why adopt that attitude?

smolder 6y ago
I don't mean to insult but I think your view is pretty naïve in its own way. You see the rapport built from going to the bar as an advantage that you shouldn't pass up on. In your example where failing to go to the bar makes you less impactful at work, I see a team that is doing a shitty job at team building, which will probably harm their chances of success. The blame for that can go in any and all directions, it's on everyone. If every potential detractor involved just says to themselves "this is what everyone else likes, so I'll fix my attitude and head to the bar", you can end up with several of them contorting to fit in, and then you're just cargo culting a good culture instead of really having one.
- xyzelement 6y ago
  Smolder, I don't mean it as black and white as it sounds. Here's an analogy: If you see $5 laying on the ground, it's better for you to pick it up. That's different than saying we must structure society in a way that people are relying on finding money on the ground (which is where you are taking it.) It's OBVIOUSLY possible to have teams and employees that operate fine without these experiences. My point is that these experiences are just opportunities to make it better (like picking up the $5) so why wouldn't one try to be the kind of person who is happy to pick up the $5 rather than someone who grumbles about it?
  - fakedang 6y ago
    What inevitably happens with your approach is that people will soon gradually feel forced into taking part in bar meetings, else their "rapport" would be affected, which would have further detrimental effects down their career at that place. Hence people get herded into team building exercises for the group against their will, even though they might have zero interest or capability in such exercises. This leads to the cargoculting mentioned in the previous comment. Sure, it's good to find and pick up $5 on the street, but in this case it will inevitably lead to a place where people have to rely on finding money on the ground.