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Apart from a lot of other issues mentioned here, this looks to me for a good argument of app sandboxing. It is a thing on mobile but not much on the desktop.

by Iolaum 6y ago

nomay 6y ago
QQ comes with a bundled QQProtect.exe that can't be killed, QQ simply refuses to run without it.
- orbital-decay 6y ago
  Can't you sandbox both though?
  - ev1 6y ago
    Unsure, but multiple Tencent products ship with various "protects" (like TenProtect) that are kernel level rootkits that start at boot.
- yorwba 6y ago
  The OP on V2EX mentioned[1] that they downloaded QQ from the Microsoft Store, specifically because it doesn't come with QQProtect. Didn't help, apparently. [1] https://www.v2ex.com/t/745030?p=1#r_10067077 https://www.v2ex.com/t/745030?p=1#r_10067077
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    There's a fatal issue with Microsoft Store apps: it allows both sandboxed and unsandboxed apps, and the developer can just upload a new version for their sandboxed app, that is not sandboxed. Updates are automatic, so the app, that looked like restricted to access only say calls will after update be able to access anything it wants.
bserge 6y ago
I tried Tencent's app on Android a long time ago when they were offering 1TB of free cloud storage. It started uploading all my photos (and who knows what else) as soon as I allowed file access. I immediately deleted it, who the hell does that? Even Google Drive asks for permission first. I guess that's what you trade for 1TB haha.
- nomay 6y ago
  Note that Chinese webdrives will detect and ban "illegal" contents, even if it's just your own nudes.
- tsbinz 6y ago
  Apple tries sneaking in iCloud syncing regularly, Adobe did it to me with their cloud storage as well. Sadly, behavior like that seems ok with product managers.
im3w1l 6y ago
I disagree. It's better to let them do shady shit and get caught and never trust them again.
- etrabroline 6y ago
  Nerds think trust is something that can be created with technology. If only that were the case.
fbelzile 6y ago
No, please no. Make sand-boxing an optional feature the user has control over. Sort of like containerized tabs in Firefox. Not all apps have legitimate reasons for accessing your hard drive, but I'd argue that 90% of them that do, really need to. Let the user decide.
- jhanschoo 6y ago
  The mobile sandboxing parent comment mentioned lets the user decide: an app that requests permission to access files triggers an OS dialog asking if the user wants to allow the app to access them.
- optimiz3 6y ago
  As an example, Adobe Acrobat. It's obvious why it needs 3 services, a persistent update checker, a couple shell extensions, 2 non services set to run at startup, and always running extensions for Outlook, Excel, and Word. All totally necessary things that a restrictive app model would unjustly break.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    Don't forget it can randomly decide to try and render your computer inoperable because it guesses you might've had a dodgy version of Photoshop installed at some point in recorded history!
- Iolaum 6y ago
  If you look at the android sandbox architecture (I m guessing ios is similar but I m less familiar with it) there are intentional "holes" in the sandbox that are managed by the user permissions (hence the user does have a say). I don't think a lot of people are arguing about 100% sandbox or nothing. I know that depending on where one stands they have feedback to give about how android permissions could be better, but still the ecosystem is better with it than without it.
l8rlump 6y ago
Any recommendations on sandbox software/workflow on Windows? I tried Sandboxie, but it caused the sandboxed app to crash.

Apart from a lot of other issues mentioned here, this looks to me for a good argument of app sandboxing. It is a thing on mobile but not much on the desktop.

by Iolaum 6y ago

Apart from a lot of other issues mentioned here, this looks to me for a good argument of app sandboxing. It is a thing on mobile but not much on the desktop.

nomay 6y ago

QQ comes with a bundled QQProtect.exe that can't be killed, QQ simply refuses to run without it.

orbital-decay 6y ago
Can't you sandbox both though?
- ev1 6y ago
  Unsure, but multiple Tencent products ship with various "protects" (like TenProtect) that are kernel level rootkits that start at boot.
yorwba 6y ago
The OP on V2EX mentioned[1] that they downloaded QQ from the Microsoft Store, specifically because it doesn't come with QQProtect. Didn't help, apparently. [1] https://www.v2ex.com/t/745030?p=1#r_10067077 https://www.v2ex.com/t/745030?p=1#r_10067077
- lostmsu 6y ago
  There's a fatal issue with Microsoft Store apps: it allows both sandboxed and unsandboxed apps, and the developer can just upload a new version for their sandboxed app, that is not sandboxed. Updates are automatic, so the app, that looked like restricted to access only say calls will after update be able to access anything it wants.

bserge 6y ago

I tried Tencent's app on Android a long time ago when they were offering 1TB of free cloud storage. It started uploading all my photos (and who knows what else) as soon as I allowed file access. I immediately deleted it, who the hell does that? Even Google Drive asks for permission first. I guess that's what you trade for 1TB haha.

nomay 6y ago
Note that Chinese webdrives will detect and ban "illegal" contents, even if it's just your own nudes.
tsbinz 6y ago
Apple tries sneaking in iCloud syncing regularly, Adobe did it to me with their cloud storage as well. Sadly, behavior like that seems ok with product managers.

im3w1l 6y ago

I disagree. It's better to let them do shady shit and get caught and never trust them again.

etrabroline 6y ago
Nerds think trust is something that can be created with technology. If only that were the case.

fbelzile 6y ago

No, please no. Make sand-boxing an optional feature the user has control over. Sort of like containerized tabs in Firefox. Not all apps have legitimate reasons for accessing your hard drive, but I'd argue that 90% of them that do, really need to. Let the user decide.

jhanschoo 6y ago
The mobile sandboxing parent comment mentioned lets the user decide: an app that requests permission to access files triggers an OS dialog asking if the user wants to allow the app to access them.
optimiz3 6y ago
As an example, Adobe Acrobat. It's obvious why it needs 3 services, a persistent update checker, a couple shell extensions, 2 non services set to run at startup, and always running extensions for Outlook, Excel, and Word. All totally necessary things that a restrictive app model would unjustly break.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Don't forget it can randomly decide to try and render your computer inoperable because it guesses you might've had a dodgy version of Photoshop installed at some point in recorded history!
Iolaum 6y ago
If you look at the android sandbox architecture (I m guessing ios is similar but I m less familiar with it) there are intentional "holes" in the sandbox that are managed by the user permissions (hence the user does have a say). I don't think a lot of people are arguing about 100% sandbox or nothing. I know that depending on where one stands they have feedback to give about how android permissions could be better, but still the ecosystem is better with it than without it.

l8rlump 6y ago

Any recommendations on sandbox software/workflow on Windows? I tried Sandboxie, but it caused the sandboxed app to crash.