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Yes, there are many things you can learn on the job, but there are things that employers shouldn't have to teach you, and there are things you don't have to kno

Yes, there are many things you can learn on the job, but there are things that employers shouldn't have to teach you, and there are things you don't have to know but give you a deeper understanding of what your field of study means. Do you understand the basics of how a compiler translates C code into assembly? Do you understand some of the basic concepts of computer design (why we need RAM, how cache improves performance, or how an operating system allows you to run multiple applications at once)? That's not even getting to the level of understanding what a transistor is, or the calculus behind Ohm's law? Knowing how and why something works makes it easier to know what can be done within the bounds of the system, and the better you know the system, the easier it is to find ways to take the system further than someone else could. I doubt you think you should be able to become a doctor, lawyer, architect, mechanical engineer, or other advanced profession without a related degree, so why do you think that the computer industry should be any different?

joebadmo 15y ago
Those are fair points, and I didn't mean to minimize the profession, or imply that it's easy to learn. My point wasn't that you don't need education to become good at something, it was that an undergraduate education shouldn't just be about becoming good at one thing. It should be about learning how to learn. Are you implying that school is the only place one can learn the things you list? And as with the rest of the professions you mention, I imagine there are many subfields of programming for which school is the best place to learn the specific advanced technical and conceptual aspects of, but not for an undergraduate degree. I guess I wish I could have learned more CS as part of my Comp Lit degree, but everything beyond CSE 142 and 143 were closed to me as a non-major. I also didn't mean to imply that I was looking for programming jobs fresh out of school, nor that programming was the only field that I was looking for jobs in. I'm learning to program on my own because I want to, but I was looking for jobs in many fields, but despite the degree and four years of military experience, I had a really hard time. Probably a big part of that was the state of the general economy, but I got the feeling that the 'soft' degree was also a part of it. I do understand the economics of the situation. With so many people graduating from college with a specifically applicable degree in the field you're in, why would you hire anyone else? And, relatedly, why would you pursue a degree in something that isn't going to be directly related to a job when you graduate? Maybe it sounds like sour grapes from someone who picked the wrong major and regrets it, and maybe that is a component, but it's not a complete description of how I feel. I do think a well rounded education is valuable, maybe not in the sense that it's going to make you more money, but in the sense that it makes you a better person, and makes the society that you're a part of a better one. And that's not to say I think I'm better than you because I studied literature and you didn't. It's just that college might be the last chance for you to get exposure to different ideas, different people, different experiences.

joebadmo 15y ago

Those are fair points, and I didn't mean to minimize the profession, or imply that it's easy to learn. My point wasn't that you don't need education to become good at something, it was that an undergraduate education shouldn't just be about becoming good at one thing. It should be about learning how to learn. Are you implying that school is the only place one can learn the things you list? And as with the rest of the professions you mention, I imagine there are many subfields of programming for which school is the best place to learn the specific advanced technical and conceptual aspects of, but not for an undergraduate degree. I guess I wish I could have learned more CS as part of my Comp Lit degree, but everything beyond CSE 142 and 143 were closed to me as a non-major. I also didn't mean to imply that I was looking for programming jobs fresh out of school, nor that programming was the only field that I was looking for jobs in. I'm learning to program on my own because I want to, but I was looking for jobs in many fields, but despite the degree and four years of military experience, I had a really hard time. Probably a big part of that was the state of the general economy, but I got the feeling that the 'soft' degree was also a part of it. I do understand the economics of the situation. With so many people graduating from college with a specifically applicable degree in the field you're in, why would you hire anyone else? And, relatedly, why would you pursue a degree in something that isn't going to be directly related to a job when you graduate? Maybe it sounds like sour grapes from someone who picked the wrong major and regrets it, and maybe that is a component, but it's not a complete description of how I feel. I do think a well rounded education is valuable, maybe not in the sense that it's going to make you more money, but in the sense that it makes you a better person, and makes the society that you're a part of a better one. And that's not to say I think I'm better than you because I studied literature and you didn't. It's just that college might be the last chance for you to get exposure to different ideas, different people, different experiences.