4 ms·

The current trend in user interfaces is not to design for desktop but for mobile first, because that's where the large majority of users are. Of course you hav

The current trend in user interfaces is not to design for desktop but for mobile first, because that's where the large majority of users are. Of course you have exceptions, when a company develops an application only for desktop for example or when a company can afford developing and maintaining many versions of one user interface. Already today it's very fine to use a laptop with a touchscreen on most websites. And actually most of desktop apps are also possible to use while not always super nice. The screens are quite large so it's not that bad to hit a specific area. I agree the mouse is a lot more precise when you are good with a mouse, but a mouse also needs more training than a touch screen to be used fast and accurately. It will always be a market for old fashioned desktop apps, maybe Apple is going for it, perhaps some GNU/Linux folks too, but I think the industry is not targeting devices without touch interfaces.

grishka 6y ago
You aren't making much sense. If someone is making a desktop app, how could it possibly be mobile first? Even if you're using the cancer that is Electron, that design with a lot of whitespace is always deliberate. I'm not saying that it's not fine to use a touchscreen laptop for something. I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. There are laptops capable of folding such that the screen faces outward, but these are as rare as they were 8 years ago, so this has never caught on either.
- wtallis 6y ago
  > I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. I think users of Windows laptops have embraced touchscreens in spite of these downsides, because a touchscreen is still less bad than the touchpads on those laptops. But Apple doesn't have the problem of bad touchpads, so they have no reason to compensate with touchscreens.
  - vinay427 6y ago
    I feel the same about Apple laptops not having a TrackPoint which is why they need to compensate with a good trackpad. ;) But seriously, I think the larger advantage I see of touchscreens on Windows devices and potentially future MacBooks is pen support (with pressure-sensitivity) and a 360° foldable display so you can write on it for taking notes or annotating documents. Apple has already started down this road with the iPad and Pencil, so I think it's conceivable to see a full convergence at some point.
  - daxfohl 6y ago
    I have no problem with the touchpad on my XPS, but I find the touchscreen quite useful. * Have to log kid into Teams classroom in the morning: pick up laptop, tap calendar, tap meeting, tap join, done. Much quicker than dragging a pointer around everywhere. * Cooking dinner, greasy fingertips, want to skip songs: tap Skip with my knuckle. * Looking at pictures, maps, reading a website, etc with family or looking through numbers with coworker: quicker and more engaging to zoom in on something with a touchscreen than a touchpad. * Perusing Netflix at night, I find it nicer to keep my laptop in my lap and swipe though things. There's no awkward "gorilla arm" thing involved: you pull the laptop in closer for a bit and your elbows stay on the table. When you're done you move back. I mean, it's not a game changer, not something I use more than a couple times a day, short durations each, but there's lots of times when it's super convenient to have a laptop with a touchscreen. I think Apple really missed the ball on this one, and continues to do so.
    - wtallis 6y ago
      None of your points seem at all convincing to me. It's like you haven't used a good touchpad. If you say things like "Much quicker than dragging a pointer around everywhere", then your current touchpad sucks. If it ever feels like you're dragging the cursor around, then you're dealing with a touchpad that has inadequate sensitivity and precision that forces the cursor speed to be set unreasonably slow. Likewise for your complaint about zooming. A good touchpad is every bit as responsive as a touchscreen, and you're not blocking half the screen with your opaque hand. And on top of the touchscreen offering almost no advantages over a truly good touchpad, Apple's touchpads have haptic feedback that isn't really possible with a laptop-sized touchscreen. They also support a wider array of multi-touch gestures than most touchscreen software can recognize, and that's before getting into third-party software that adds more gestures, such that touchpad gestures can replace about half of the keyboard shortcuts I use.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Most apps nowadays are mobile apps or web apps. A few are put in Electron for desktop, very few are made for desktop first. Yes a touchscreen can be inconvenient in some positions. That's why you have devices such as the Surface pro or the foldable laptops you mention.

grishka 6y ago

You aren't making much sense. If someone is making a desktop app, how could it possibly be mobile first? Even if you're using the cancer that is Electron, that design with a lot of whitespace is always deliberate. I'm not saying that it's not fine to use a touchscreen laptop for something. I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. There are laptops capable of folding such that the screen faces outward, but these are as rare as they were 8 years ago, so this has never caught on either.

wtallis 6y ago
> I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. I think users of Windows laptops have embraced touchscreens in spite of these downsides, because a touchscreen is still less bad than the touchpads on those laptops. But Apple doesn't have the problem of bad touchpads, so they have no reason to compensate with touchscreens.
- vinay427 6y ago
  I feel the same about Apple laptops not having a TrackPoint which is why they need to compensate with a good trackpad. ;) But seriously, I think the larger advantage I see of touchscreens on Windows devices and potentially future MacBooks is pen support (with pressure-sensitivity) and a 360° foldable display so you can write on it for taking notes or annotating documents. Apple has already started down this road with the iPad and Pencil, so I think it's conceivable to see a full convergence at some point.
- daxfohl 6y ago
  I have no problem with the touchpad on my XPS, but I find the touchscreen quite useful. * Have to log kid into Teams classroom in the morning: pick up laptop, tap calendar, tap meeting, tap join, done. Much quicker than dragging a pointer around everywhere. * Cooking dinner, greasy fingertips, want to skip songs: tap Skip with my knuckle. * Looking at pictures, maps, reading a website, etc with family or looking through numbers with coworker: quicker and more engaging to zoom in on something with a touchscreen than a touchpad. * Perusing Netflix at night, I find it nicer to keep my laptop in my lap and swipe though things. There's no awkward "gorilla arm" thing involved: you pull the laptop in closer for a bit and your elbows stay on the table. When you're done you move back. I mean, it's not a game changer, not something I use more than a couple times a day, short durations each, but there's lots of times when it's super convenient to have a laptop with a touchscreen. I think Apple really missed the ball on this one, and continues to do so.
  - wtallis 6y ago
    None of your points seem at all convincing to me. It's like you haven't used a good touchpad. If you say things like "Much quicker than dragging a pointer around everywhere", then your current touchpad sucks. If it ever feels like you're dragging the cursor around, then you're dealing with a touchpad that has inadequate sensitivity and precision that forces the cursor speed to be set unreasonably slow. Likewise for your complaint about zooming. A good touchpad is every bit as responsive as a touchscreen, and you're not blocking half the screen with your opaque hand. And on top of the touchscreen offering almost no advantages over a truly good touchpad, Apple's touchpads have haptic feedback that isn't really possible with a laptop-sized touchscreen. They also support a wider array of multi-touch gestures than most touchscreen software can recognize, and that's before getting into third-party software that adds more gestures, such that touchpad gestures can replace about half of the keyboard shortcuts I use.
speedgoose 6y ago
Most apps nowadays are mobile apps or web apps. A few are put in Electron for desktop, very few are made for desktop first. Yes a touchscreen can be inconvenient in some positions. That's why you have devices such as the Surface pro or the foldable laptops you mention.