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Give a MacBook to a child and she will likely try to touch the screen. Because at this point a touch interface is expected by people. Even me who is used to no

Give a MacBook to a child and she will likely try to touch the screen. Because at this point a touch interface is expected by people. Even me who is used to non touch screens user interfaces, I tend to touch the screen on a non touchscreen laptop once in a while. It's frustrating that it doesn't work, because it does work on my ThinkPad and I enjoy it. Apple not having a touchscreen option on their high end laptops is weird, since they did so well with the iPhone and the iPad. At least that would help developers to implement touch interfaces for iOs. Or not feel dated for the younger generations.

grishka 6y ago
IMO it's important to maintain a clear separation and not blur the line between desktops and tablets. Desktop UIs are dense, they're your tools to get your job done as efficiently as possible. You can position the mouse pointer quickly and with great precision, so there is no need for ample spacing between the controls. It's okay when a professional tool has some learning curve to it, but after you're past that, it's a joy to use. And no, desktop UI design shouldn't be informed by phones and tablets. When designing a desktop UI, you should pretend touchscreens were never invented. That being said, I do know one person who has a Windows laptop with a touchscreen and does occasionally tap or scroll something on it. Myself, as someone who has never owned one of these, I maintain this clear separation between mobile and desktop in my head and have never had the thought of touching my laptop screen except to clean it.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  The current trend in user interfaces is not to design for desktop but for mobile first, because that's where the large majority of users are. Of course you have exceptions, when a company develops an application only for desktop for example or when a company can afford developing and maintaining many versions of one user interface. Already today it's very fine to use a laptop with a touchscreen on most websites. And actually most of desktop apps are also possible to use while not always super nice. The screens are quite large so it's not that bad to hit a specific area. I agree the mouse is a lot more precise when you are good with a mouse, but a mouse also needs more training than a touch screen to be used fast and accurately. It will always be a market for old fashioned desktop apps, maybe Apple is going for it, perhaps some GNU/Linux folks too, but I think the industry is not targeting devices without touch interfaces.
  - grishka 6y ago
    You aren't making much sense. If someone is making a desktop app, how could it possibly be mobile first? Even if you're using the cancer that is Electron, that design with a lot of whitespace is always deliberate. I'm not saying that it's not fine to use a touchscreen laptop for something. I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. There are laptops capable of folding such that the screen faces outward, but these are as rare as they were 8 years ago, so this has never caught on either.
    - wtallis 6y ago
      > I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. I think users of Windows laptops have embraced touchscreens in spite of these downsides, because a touchscreen is still less bad than the touchpads on those laptops. But Apple doesn't have the problem of bad touchpads, so they have no reason to compensate with touchscreens.
      - vinay427 6y ago
        I feel the same about Apple laptops not having a TrackPoint which is why they need to compensate with a good trackpad. ;) But seriously, I think the larger advantage I see of touchscreens on Windows devices and potentially future MacBooks is pen support (with pressure-sensitivity) and a 360° foldable display so you can write on it for taking notes or annotating documents. Apple has already started down this road with the iPad and Pencil, so I think it's conceivable to see a full convergence at some point.
      - daxfohl 6y ago
        I have no problem with the touchpad on my XPS, but I find the touchscreen quite useful. * Have to log kid into Teams classroom in the morning: pick up laptop, tap calendar, tap meeting, tap join, done. Much quicker than dragging a pointer around everywhere. * Cooking dinner, greasy fingertips, want to skip songs: tap Skip with my knuckle. * Looking at pictures, maps, reading a website, etc with family or looking through numbers with coworker: quicker and more engaging to zoom in on something with a touchscreen than a touchpad. * Perusing Netflix at night, I find it nicer to keep my laptop in my lap and swipe though things. There's no awkward "gorilla arm" thing involved: you pull the laptop in closer for a bit and your elbows stay on the table. When you're done you move back. I mean, it's not a game changer, not something I use more than a couple times a day, short durations each, but there's lots of times when it's super convenient to have a laptop with a touchscreen. I think Apple really missed the ball on this one, and continues to do so.
bluescrn 6y ago
In general, where there is a touchscreen, there is a dumbed-down UI with significantly reduced functionality. Touchscreen devices are great for content consumption and communication. But not so much for creating anything. General purpose computers, with precision input devices, are still required by many for getting serious work (and play) done.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  I disagree there. It's very much easier to create content on a mobile device like a smartphone or an iPad. Professionals will prefer a desktop I guess but there are so many great user friendly apps for video editing, music, art, photography, with interfaces designed for touchscreens.

grishka 6y ago

IMO it's important to maintain a clear separation and not blur the line between desktops and tablets. Desktop UIs are dense, they're your tools to get your job done as efficiently as possible. You can position the mouse pointer quickly and with great precision, so there is no need for ample spacing between the controls. It's okay when a professional tool has some learning curve to it, but after you're past that, it's a joy to use. And no, desktop UI design shouldn't be informed by phones and tablets. When designing a desktop UI, you should pretend touchscreens were never invented. That being said, I do know one person who has a Windows laptop with a touchscreen and does occasionally tap or scroll something on it. Myself, as someone who has never owned one of these, I maintain this clear separation between mobile and desktop in my head and have never had the thought of touching my laptop screen except to clean it.

speedgoose 6y ago
The current trend in user interfaces is not to design for desktop but for mobile first, because that's where the large majority of users are. Of course you have exceptions, when a company develops an application only for desktop for example or when a company can afford developing and maintaining many versions of one user interface. Already today it's very fine to use a laptop with a touchscreen on most websites. And actually most of desktop apps are also possible to use while not always super nice. The screens are quite large so it's not that bad to hit a specific area. I agree the mouse is a lot more precise when you are good with a mouse, but a mouse also needs more training than a touch screen to be used fast and accurately. It will always be a market for old fashioned desktop apps, maybe Apple is going for it, perhaps some GNU/Linux folks too, but I think the industry is not targeting devices without touch interfaces.
- grishka 6y ago
  You aren't making much sense. If someone is making a desktop app, how could it possibly be mobile first? Even if you're using the cancer that is Electron, that design with a lot of whitespace is always deliberate. I'm not saying that it's not fine to use a touchscreen laptop for something. I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. There are laptops capable of folding such that the screen faces outward, but these are as rare as they were 8 years ago, so this has never caught on either.
  - wtallis 6y ago
    > I'm saying that no one uses them like that with any kind of seriousness because it's awkward and physically inconvenient to poke your fingers into a vertical surface in front of you for any extended period of time. I think users of Windows laptops have embraced touchscreens in spite of these downsides, because a touchscreen is still less bad than the touchpads on those laptops. But Apple doesn't have the problem of bad touchpads, so they have no reason to compensate with touchscreens.
    - vinay427 6y ago
      I feel the same about Apple laptops not having a TrackPoint which is why they need to compensate with a good trackpad. ;) But seriously, I think the larger advantage I see of touchscreens on Windows devices and potentially future MacBooks is pen support (with pressure-sensitivity) and a 360° foldable display so you can write on it for taking notes or annotating documents. Apple has already started down this road with the iPad and Pencil, so I think it's conceivable to see a full convergence at some point.
    - daxfohl 6y ago
      I have no problem with the touchpad on my XPS, but I find the touchscreen quite useful. * Have to log kid into Teams classroom in the morning: pick up laptop, tap calendar, tap meeting, tap join, done. Much quicker than dragging a pointer around everywhere. * Cooking dinner, greasy fingertips, want to skip songs: tap Skip with my knuckle. * Looking at pictures, maps, reading a website, etc with family or looking through numbers with coworker: quicker and more engaging to zoom in on something with a touchscreen than a touchpad. * Perusing Netflix at night, I find it nicer to keep my laptop in my lap and swipe though things. There's no awkward "gorilla arm" thing involved: you pull the laptop in closer for a bit and your elbows stay on the table. When you're done you move back. I mean, it's not a game changer, not something I use more than a couple times a day, short durations each, but there's lots of times when it's super convenient to have a laptop with a touchscreen. I think Apple really missed the ball on this one, and continues to do so.

bluescrn 6y ago

In general, where there is a touchscreen, there is a dumbed-down UI with significantly reduced functionality. Touchscreen devices are great for content consumption and communication. But not so much for creating anything. General purpose computers, with precision input devices, are still required by many for getting serious work (and play) done.

speedgoose 6y ago
I disagree there. It's very much easier to create content on a mobile device like a smartphone or an iPad. Professionals will prefer a desktop I guess but there are so many great user friendly apps for video editing, music, art, photography, with interfaces designed for touchscreens.