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Organic chemistry should probably be made mandatory as part of high school science education like physics. Parent looks like Exhibit A for anti-thiomersal hyste

Organic chemistry should probably be made mandatory as part of high school science education like physics. Parent looks like Exhibit A for anti-thiomersal hysteria.

owenmarshall 6y ago
>> lead or arsenic or mercury > Organic chemistry Heh.
- acidbaseextract 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylmercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylmercury "Heh" is an obnoxious response, as if an organic chemistry class wouldn't teach the basics of organometallics and some of the things that make compounds more or less dangerous.
  - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
    Correct. One reaction involving mercury would be Oxymercuration, a process that is usually covered in Organic Chemistry 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymercuration_reaction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymercuration_reaction
Scea91 6y ago
It is not? I had at least 2 years of organic chemistry at high school (Czechia).
- hobofan 6y ago
  In Germany it's 1 year of the final 2 year Chemistry elective, where most people instead choose Biology or Physics (and I think if you are on a language focused path you might not even have to do one of them).
  - dividedbyzero 6y ago
    It depends on the state level, but I believe in most (if not all?) you need to take at least one year of anorganic and one year of organic chemistry
    - hobofan 6y ago
      Just looked it up and you are right, all of 10th grade is already focused on organic chemistry[0] (in Bavaria) for those with a STEM profile, while other profiles also have organic chemistry that year, but a bit less of it. [0]: http://www.isb-gym8-lehrplan.de/contentserv/3.1.neu/g8.de/id_26225.html http://www.isb-gym8-lehrplan.de/contentserv/3.1.neu/g8.de/id...
- GreenWatermelon 6y ago
  same in Egypt.
- craftinator 6y ago
  In the US, high school includes very basic chemistry lumped into general science topics. Pretty much all organic chemistry I've learned has been from Khan academy and wikipedia...
makomk 6y ago
One of the things I learnt in actual chemistry classes was that organomercury compounds actually tend to be really toxic compared to elemental mercury. Unfortunately, there's been a fair amount of misinformation spread about this online in the name of fighting anti-vaxxers, often involving misleading analogues with stuff like chlorine and sodium.
adrian_b 6y ago
I believe that the anti-thiomersal hysteria was quite justified. Even if thiomersal is more effective at killing bacteria than at killing humans, there are no doubts that it is also toxic for humans and for any other animals. While the thiomersal dose injected together with a vaccine is small enough so that in most cases it will not cause damages before being eliminated from the body, the risks are not negligible. To willingly inject yourself with poison, even in a quantity that hopefully will not hurt you, seems rather stupid. Better alternative bactericides must be found for vaccine preservation.
- p_l 6y ago
  The amount of mercury intake with vaccine that was preserved using thiomersal is smaller than amount mercury taken into organism when you drink a cup of tap water in many countries, including tap water declared safe to drink. That's why it wasn't justified.
  - nkurz 6y ago
    While you may be right that the total amount of mercury is not an issue relative to other sources, allergies to thiomersal are a real thing. Here's a page on it: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/thiomersal-allergy/ https://dermnetnz.org/topics/thiomersal-allergy/ Personally, I eventually discovered that my terrible problems with wearing contact lenses in the 1990's were caused by the thiomersal used as a preservative in the saline solution I was using. Given my known and tested reaction to having it in my eyes and on my skin, I would be very reluctant to have an injection that contained it.
    - esyir 6y ago
      Guess we should ban peanuts too, since allergies to that exist too. Some population being allergic isn't an argument to remove it, rather one for transparency and alternatives.
      - zkomp 6y ago
        No it should be more like: I guess we should not put peanuts into vaccines without serious consideration.
JohnJamesRambo 6y ago
I've actually worked for decades in science and the last ten in a chemistry department as a scientist looking for new cancer drugs. Don't assume things. I'm not that afraid of thiomersal since it is given so rarely. That doesn't mean I would love to be around a new pigment made from mercury...

Organic chemistry should probably be made mandatory as part of high school science education like physics. Parent looks like Exhibit A for anti-thiomersal hysteria.

owenmarshall 6y ago

>> lead or arsenic or mercury > Organic chemistry Heh.

acidbaseextract 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylmercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylmercury "Heh" is an obnoxious response, as if an organic chemistry class wouldn't teach the basics of organometallics and some of the things that make compounds more or less dangerous.
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Correct. One reaction involving mercury would be Oxymercuration, a process that is usually covered in Organic Chemistry 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymercuration_reaction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymercuration_reaction

Scea91 6y ago

It is not? I had at least 2 years of organic chemistry at high school (Czechia).

hobofan 6y ago
In Germany it's 1 year of the final 2 year Chemistry elective, where most people instead choose Biology or Physics (and I think if you are on a language focused path you might not even have to do one of them).
- dividedbyzero 6y ago
  It depends on the state level, but I believe in most (if not all?) you need to take at least one year of anorganic and one year of organic chemistry
  - hobofan 6y ago
    Just looked it up and you are right, all of 10th grade is already focused on organic chemistry[0] (in Bavaria) for those with a STEM profile, while other profiles also have organic chemistry that year, but a bit less of it. [0]: http://www.isb-gym8-lehrplan.de/contentserv/3.1.neu/g8.de/id_26225.html http://www.isb-gym8-lehrplan.de/contentserv/3.1.neu/g8.de/id...
GreenWatermelon 6y ago
same in Egypt.
craftinator 6y ago
In the US, high school includes very basic chemistry lumped into general science topics. Pretty much all organic chemistry I've learned has been from Khan academy and wikipedia...

makomk 6y ago

One of the things I learnt in actual chemistry classes was that organomercury compounds actually tend to be really toxic compared to elemental mercury. Unfortunately, there's been a fair amount of misinformation spread about this online in the name of fighting anti-vaxxers, often involving misleading analogues with stuff like chlorine and sodium.

adrian_b 6y ago

I believe that the anti-thiomersal hysteria was quite justified. Even if thiomersal is more effective at killing bacteria than at killing humans, there are no doubts that it is also toxic for humans and for any other animals. While the thiomersal dose injected together with a vaccine is small enough so that in most cases it will not cause damages before being eliminated from the body, the risks are not negligible. To willingly inject yourself with poison, even in a quantity that hopefully will not hurt you, seems rather stupid. Better alternative bactericides must be found for vaccine preservation.

p_l 6y ago
The amount of mercury intake with vaccine that was preserved using thiomersal is smaller than amount mercury taken into organism when you drink a cup of tap water in many countries, including tap water declared safe to drink. That's why it wasn't justified.
- nkurz 6y ago
  While you may be right that the total amount of mercury is not an issue relative to other sources, allergies to thiomersal are a real thing. Here's a page on it: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/thiomersal-allergy/ https://dermnetnz.org/topics/thiomersal-allergy/ Personally, I eventually discovered that my terrible problems with wearing contact lenses in the 1990's were caused by the thiomersal used as a preservative in the saline solution I was using. Given my known and tested reaction to having it in my eyes and on my skin, I would be very reluctant to have an injection that contained it.
  - esyir 6y ago
    Guess we should ban peanuts too, since allergies to that exist too. Some population being allergic isn't an argument to remove it, rather one for transparency and alternatives.
    - zkomp 6y ago
      No it should be more like: I guess we should not put peanuts into vaccines without serious consideration.

JohnJamesRambo 6y ago

I've actually worked for decades in science and the last ten in a chemistry department as a scientist looking for new cancer drugs. Don't assume things. I'm not that afraid of thiomersal since it is given so rarely. That doesn't mean I would love to be around a new pigment made from mercury...