4 ms·

A free Snowden would be a good start

Craighead 6y ago
Snowden, the Russian agent who under a self proclaimed psychotic breakdown after breaking into systems he didn't have authorization to, traded American and private company secrets for safe harbor to the country who has the least morals in terms of cyber security and hybrid warfare capabilities, because he thought he was about to be assassinated?
cjfd 6y ago
Not just freeing. Give the guy some kind of lofty award and have the next US president give it to him together with a speech explaining how great the things are that he did.
- gonzo41 6y ago
  Actually, I don't think Snowden did that much. He exposed crimes, sure. But they still happen in darkness now. So there's this drifting time element to his story. It's in the past. And the systems that are in place for accountability didn't result in any accountability. Rather things just went dark. Maybe have a ponder about, if Snowden didn't happen, what would be different about today? Upside from Snowden, the intel community got better controls around administrator access on their networks.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    The point of Snowden's actions was to reveal what our government is doing in an attempt to force them to change it. The immediate branding him as a traitor and foreign agent both allows the government to continue the illicit activity and discourages others from revealing damaging material. By pardoning him and then rewarding him for his actions, it at least signals that government organizations shouldn't engage in similar activities and will lead to other people stepping forward if they do.
    - gonzo41 6y ago
      >it at least signals that government organizations shouldn't engage in similar activities. This is the worst way for the executive to send signals to the organizations it controls. It also assumes that the alphabet agencies were building these systems without government knowledge. But, everyone knew. They got the money for the project from the government. Sending a signal would be better achieved via legislation. Snowden should have leaked to members of congress. I strongly doubt Snowden will ever get a pardon. It would be rewarding people declassifying large government programs based on their feelings about those programs.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >But, everyone knew. So why would Clapper lie about it to Wyden? Additionally, what good would leaking it to Congress do then? As a whole, I agree that the pardon alone would be a poor signal. Ideally it would be accompanied by additional changes. You argued that Snowden didn't accomplish much though and part of the reason is the hostile reaction from the government. >It would be rewarding people declassifying large government programs based on their feelings about those programs If a program is classified, it shouldn't be in a moral gray area. The public should be aware if we're committing unethical acts.
        gonzo41 6y ago
        I agree with you but I think Snowden could have gone a different route. Probably to the same effect, with less damage to his own life. Most things that are classified are in the morale grey area.

Snowden, the Russian agent who under a self proclaimed psychotic breakdown after breaking into systems he didn't have authorization to, traded American and private company secrets for safe harbor to the country who has the least morals in terms of cyber security and hybrid warfare capabilities, because he thought he was about to be assassinated?

cjfd 6y ago

Not just freeing. Give the guy some kind of lofty award and have the next US president give it to him together with a speech explaining how great the things are that he did.

gonzo41 6y ago
Actually, I don't think Snowden did that much. He exposed crimes, sure. But they still happen in darkness now. So there's this drifting time element to his story. It's in the past. And the systems that are in place for accountability didn't result in any accountability. Rather things just went dark. Maybe have a ponder about, if Snowden didn't happen, what would be different about today? Upside from Snowden, the intel community got better controls around administrator access on their networks.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  The point of Snowden's actions was to reveal what our government is doing in an attempt to force them to change it. The immediate branding him as a traitor and foreign agent both allows the government to continue the illicit activity and discourages others from revealing damaging material. By pardoning him and then rewarding him for his actions, it at least signals that government organizations shouldn't engage in similar activities and will lead to other people stepping forward if they do.
  - gonzo41 6y ago
    >it at least signals that government organizations shouldn't engage in similar activities. This is the worst way for the executive to send signals to the organizations it controls. It also assumes that the alphabet agencies were building these systems without government knowledge. But, everyone knew. They got the money for the project from the government. Sending a signal would be better achieved via legislation. Snowden should have leaked to members of congress. I strongly doubt Snowden will ever get a pardon. It would be rewarding people declassifying large government programs based on their feelings about those programs.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      >But, everyone knew. So why would Clapper lie about it to Wyden? Additionally, what good would leaking it to Congress do then? As a whole, I agree that the pardon alone would be a poor signal. Ideally it would be accompanied by additional changes. You argued that Snowden didn't accomplish much though and part of the reason is the hostile reaction from the government. >It would be rewarding people declassifying large government programs based on their feelings about those programs If a program is classified, it shouldn't be in a moral gray area. The public should be aware if we're committing unethical acts.
      - gonzo41 6y ago
        I agree with you but I think Snowden could have gone a different route. Probably to the same effect, with less damage to his own life. Most things that are classified are in the morale grey area.