8 ms·

US Navy – Tic Tac UFO – High frequency gravitational wave generator

102 points by ubertoop 6y ago

ubertoop 6y ago
Check out these patents currently assigned to US Secretary of Navy and invented by "Salvatore Cezar Pais" https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais Then think about the tic tac ufo UFO reports from US Navy fighter pilots [1] What's going on here? Disinformation campaign from US Navy? Actual patents? Maybe the downloadbal PDFs are malware vectors for espionage? Seems highly unlikely that this tech actually exists AND is publicly available information, right? [1] https://youtu.be/Eco2s3-0zsQ https://youtu.be/Eco2s3-0zsQ
- hindsightbias 6y ago
  With such a wide diversity in radical patents, Occam’s Razor should be applied. He is either a magnitude more brilliant than Einstein or he’s a crackpot. “There is no relationship whatsoever between my assigned duties and the invention. The invention was made independently of any job performance or assigned tasks by the Branch or Section.” https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37134/emails-show-navys-ufo-patents-went-through-significant-internal-review-resulted-in-a-demo https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37134/emails-show-navy...
  - ubertoop 6y ago
    That's fair, but then how do you explain the Tic Tac UFO reports from US Navy pilots? [1] [1] https://youtu.be/PkPn-YMp9vI https://youtu.be/PkPn-YMp9vI
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard Worlds most advanced Navy systems and crews and all I get are fuzzy pics and descriptions.
      - pp19dd 6y ago
        Might be worth something to watch part of the Lex Fridman interview with one of the pilots, David Fravor. The entire podcast is four hours long and goes over his career and experiences, I'd argue establishes him as a competent naval officer and pilot. The timecode is when he describes the actual event- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E&t=4264s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E&t=4264s In the interview he also describes the record keeping process and basically some of the head scratchers you're bringing about. One other thing the pilot confirms in that interview is the validity (authenticity) of the leaked "Executive Summary" report, which, was leaked to media and (as far as I know) not really pursued for authenticity verification by others (PDF): https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document_dev/2018/05/18/TIC%20TAC%20UFO%20EXECUTIVE%20REPORT_1526682843046_42960218_ver1.0.pdf https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document...
        mcswell 6y ago
        I think it was Richard Feynman who said the easiest person in the world to fool is yourself. I have no doubt this pilot is a good officer and pilot, but that doesn't mean he saw what he thinks he saw.
        ubertoop 6y ago
        He is not the only highly qualified navy pilot who saw these crafts. [1] And the 2004 event is not the only time the US Navy has seen these crafts. There was another event in 2014. [2] [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-and-a-with-navy-pilot-chad-underwood.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-... [2} https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings...
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        pp19dd 6y ago
        Oh, no, sorry - I deliberately didn't interpret the validity of the claim or try to address it. I don't live in the dream land, and I try to double check reality best I can. To this day all I have from all this is head scratching and we have no proof of anything aside from that the Pentagon -for whatever reason- has confirmed that the cockpit videos were genuinely released by them. You can request them yourself from the Pentagon, directly. I am convinced that the man is a good officer and a competent pilot. That is all. Occam's razor: things outlined in that report are true -or - the man is a true patriot, participating in a disinformation campaign design to bankrupt the Chinese or Russians in attempting to recreate some of the very expensive things outlined in the larger picture described here. But I keep peeled to anything related to this story because the implication behind the claims are potentially world-changing.
    - nobodywasishere 6y ago
      All three of these videos have perfectly reasonable explanations. See [1] [2] [3] [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=mfhAC2YiYHs https://youtube.com/watch?v=mfhAC2YiYHs [2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=3viYcYPRdu4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=3viYcYPRdu4 [3] https://youtube.com/watch?v=jWWGmiZs4JA https://youtube.com/watch?v=jWWGmiZs4JA
  - gbh444g 6y ago
    Or maybe he's another Edison. I mean, he's likely the nominal inventor: other people do the research, but only his name appears on papers.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      Any of 5 or so of those patents would win a Nobel Prize if real. And any PhD working with/for him would have strangled him already if he left contributors off.
      - frongpik 6y ago
        Nobel prize is a measly sum of money split among all contributors, plus some fame.
- raiflip 6y ago
  Regardless of whether or not gravitons actually exist, it is feasible that the US government will want to signal to adversaries that they do have this technology. After all, a deterrent is useless if your adversary doesn't know it exists. You can't be deterred by something you don't know about.
- jb775 6y ago
  I don't see any reason for a public patent besides disinformation. I don't think any foreign gov would fall for this, so my guess is a disinformation campaign against average people...to make them think this is the current state of flight technology. (I think it's significantly greater. The underlying mechanisms here have been known for a very long time. Just look into the details and date ranges of: the piesel electric effect, work of Harold Aspden, Planck's equation, Maxwell's equation, Robert Adam's motor, Dewey Larson physics)
  - radicaldreamer 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on what you think the current state is?
- jml7c5 6y ago
  It's crackpots the whole way down. The whole Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (which is responsible for the release of the Navy UFO videos) was spearheaded by Robert Bigelow, who bought "Skinwalker Ranch" because he believed there were inter-dimensional portals and aliens were mutilating cows. It turns out crackpots can get government funding, too.
ksaj 6y ago
This relies on the existence of the graviton, which at this point is is not actually known to exist. Some would even argue that there is no reason for it to exist. There are a few competing theories of gravity that don't jive at all with what's discussed in pseudo-factual language in the patent. It doesn't help that his only source cited seems to be his own, albeit peer reviewed, paper. I hope that paper at least cites someone other than himself. So all this talk about gravitons being EM and photon carriers is a whole lot of guestimating. It doesn't seem to connect in any way with LIGO's expectations and results. It makes sense to patent an idea based on what he's hoping will eventually become a fleshed out scientific theory with proofs and whatnot, it doesn't mean any of it will turn out to be correct. It just means if it does find proof, he could get rich.
- new_guy 6y ago
  > It makes sense to patent an idea based on what he's hoping will eventually become a fleshed out scientific theory with proofs and whatnot, it doesn't mean any of it will turn out to be correct. It just means if it does find proof, he could get rich. It would just make him yet another patent troll. The US patent system is beyond absurd. Unless he can physically demonstrate a fully working 'gravitational wave generator', the patent shouldn't be granted.
  - ubertoop 6y ago
    Maybe, but the patent is also owned by the US Navy. Why? And what does this have to do - if anything - with the same shape UFO reported by the US Navy in 2004?
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      It's owned by the Navy because the inventor is an employee of the Navy who wrote the patent on DOD time and used DOD resources. They almost have certainly have a policy requiring that under those circumstances the patent must be assigned to the Navy
  - ksaj 6y ago
philip142au 6y ago
It’s rubbish, whatever propulsion method you have you still need to push the air out of the way to move the thing forwards which takes the same energy using imaginary gravitational waves or a jet engine. No magic is going to make the air get out of the way any faster
- evilduck 6y ago
  We're well within the realm of sci-fi speculation here, but if you have a gravity generation device that can be directed you could augment traditional aircraft to safely allow for high G maneuvers or sustained accelerations that would otherwise be harmful to the pilot or the airframe. That would have some tactical advantages even if it doesn't mean it helps us go faster.
- stevenalowe 6y ago
  it's intended for use in space, phil.
  - gus_massa 6y ago
    The main idea is to make a ray of gravitons (or whatever equivalent in other possible extensions of general relativity). For theoretical reasons, the ratio of momentum to energy is fixed at 1/c, which is 3.3E-6 N/kW, that is very low compared to ion thrusters or chemical rockets. Moreover it's the same value that you get with a photon rocket, i.e a laser or a flashlight in the back of your rocket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_rocket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_rocket So even in space, it is not very useful and you can replace it with a more simple and more efficient device.
- thysultan 6y ago
  The appeal of gravitational propulsion is in replacing xyz propulsion fuel with electricity regardless of medium(vacuum or not).
lwansbrough 6y ago
This whole thing has a very boring, very likely answer described in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8&t=1300s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8&t=1300s Essentially, there are a few different perspective/camera quirks coming together in these videos which can (apparently) trick even well trained pilots.
- miles 6y ago
  > there are a few different perspective/camera quirks coming together in these videos which can (apparently) trick even well trained pilots. How does that explain the radar readings? "The tic tac – so-called because of its rounded shape and white colour – was caught on video as the US Navy attempted to identify a series of objects spotted on radar flying off America’s west coast in November 2004. ... The sighting came during a fortnight in which the USS Princeton had noted unknown aircraft intermittently passing across its radar systems off the US west coast. The contact was considered so inexplicable that the system was shut down and restarted to check for bugs — but operators continued to track the mysterious object afterwards."[1] "Witnesses included highly trained military personnel—among them several deeply experienced radar operators and fighter pilots—who at the time of the sightings were at the controls of arguably the most advanced flight technology ever created. And yet none can explain what they saw."[2] Does Mick West, a "science writer, skeptical investigator, and retired video game programmer"[3], know more about the issue than "highly trained military personnel—among them several deeply experienced radar operators and fighter pilots"? [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ufo-tic-tac-flying-saucer-chad-underwoord-dave-fravor-a9254671.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ufo-tic-tac-flyin... [2] https://www.history.com/news/uss-nimitz-2004-tic-tac-ufo-encounter https://www.history.com/news/uss-nimitz-2004-tic-tac-ufo-enc... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_West https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_West
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    Mick Wests breakdown is sufficient to explain all of the actual footage we have, and you can verify it yourself by doing trigonometry with the data on the screen. It's completely unnecessary to appeal to the credentials of fighter pilots, following this logic I'd have to believe in Mermaids given how many sailors have allegedly spotted one over the centuries. It's truly astonishing that a man who provides a basic, mundane and evidence based explanation that someone can follow along at home is routinely downvoted while people upvoted UFO alien conspiracy garbage.
ihunter2839 6y ago
Curious as to what others here think about the idea that the Tic Tac UFO could be some sort of high energy particle beam being controlled from the ground? My mom unfortunately passed from cancer, but she was able to get proton beam therapy for a tumor that would have been inaccessible with traditional radiation. This, as I understand it, is because a proton beam sheds the majority of it's energy at the very end of it's flight, allowing internal tissues to be targeted more directly. I wonder - what would it look like if you made a proton beam and pointed it to the sky? Could you create a glowing area, much like the Tic Tac, that could be used to throw off enemy radar? I am legitimately curious, as my physics background is so so at best.
- bori5 6y ago
  All those strange lights in the desert around that Area 51 place ...https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/so-ya-dont-believe-it-was-a-proton-beam-eh/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strang...
- 8bitsrule 6y ago
  Those 'things' fly at hologram speeds, turn hologram corners. Given a relatively stable atmosphere (on some days), could the 'Bragg Peak' be controlled enough? Radar signature? Interesting hypothesis. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragg_peak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragg_peak]
- swader999 6y ago
  The viking man has a good run down on all this tech: https://rumble.com/vbodst-u.s.-space-force-technologies-and-history.html https://rumble.com/vbodst-u.s.-space-force-technologies-and-...
  - maxden 6y ago
    aka the "QAnon Shaman" from the Capitol Hill riots.
- egfx 6y ago
  Yep. I had this thought from the very beginning. It checks all the boxes for me because I had a personal experience with the exact same thing as what's being popularly described, a white glowing bouncing ping pong ball object moving very very erratically in the night sky. Iv'e commented a few times about it but I found this interesting, Advances in Radar Techniques. (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Advances_in_Radar_Techniques/vS0fAQAAIAAJ?hl=en https://www.google.com/books/edition/Advances_in_Radar_Techn...) which says that one of the most recent advances is the ability to detect holograms. It's a bit curious considering everything.
avl999 6y ago
Is this the beginning of a cover story that the intelligence agencies are setting up in reaction to congress passing a provision to be briefed on UFO research within 180 days as part of the covid funding bill? Also note that David Fravor encountered the Tic Tac UFO tech in the early 2000s about 13 years before the publishing of this paper.
nether 6y ago
Title is editorializing, there's no mention of the tic tac UFO in the patent. Also Pais has a number of crazy patent applications like this that have yet to see any real world implementation.
antognini 6y ago
Tangentially related, but when I was an undergrad at Caltech there was a device in a nook of the astrophysics building labeled "Gravitational wave generator" that had the appropriate two-decades-outdated look of equipment you'd find in a random physics lab. It was two little weights in the shape of a dumbbell attached to a motor. There was a knob that allowed you to specify the frequency of the gravitational waves you wanted to generate, and when you flipped it on, the weights would start spinning, thereby generating gravitational waves at your specified frequency. I always found it amusing that someone went to the trouble to make that.
adamredwoods 6y ago
> the acoustic energy from the at least two sound generators causing each of the electrically charged cavity surfaces to vibrate such that a second electromagnetic field is generated; This patent claims to create electromagnetic waves from sound waves vibrating gas? Seems like an inefficient way to create an electromagnetic field (if even possible)?
alisaus 6y ago
I was a really bad girl. Punish me with your dick in my mouth. - https://adultlove.life https://adultlove.life
Smooth-Weather 6y ago
The Tic-Tac UFO probably use MHD propulsion to move. It allows ionized air displacement in all directions depending on electrodes on the ship. So, no air resistance, no sound barrier. It move itself silently, it can move also under water, the same way it moves in the air, by displacing the water around it. It can sustain itself and accelerate in any direction depending on which electrodes are activated and so, to which direction the air is sucked. It would require a great source of energy to surround the ship surface (for something around 20m long in size) by plasma, should require something around 80000 Gauss and 1000 Megawatts for the electrical discharge.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  interesting, entertaining the stuff around USO lore though, wouldn't the energy required to navigate around the bottom of the ocean be immense though (more than whatever you calculated)?

102 points by ubertoop 6y ago

Check out these patents currently assigned to US Secretary of Navy and invented by "Salvatore Cezar Pais" https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais Then think about the tic tac ufo UFO reports from US Navy fighter pilots [1] What's going on here? Disinformation campaign from US Navy? Actual patents? Maybe the downloadbal PDFs are malware vectors for espionage? Seems highly unlikely that this tech actually exists AND is publicly available information, right? [1] https://youtu.be/Eco2s3-0zsQ https://youtu.be/Eco2s3-0zsQ

hindsightbias 6y ago
With such a wide diversity in radical patents, Occam’s Razor should be applied. He is either a magnitude more brilliant than Einstein or he’s a crackpot. “There is no relationship whatsoever between my assigned duties and the invention. The invention was made independently of any job performance or assigned tasks by the Branch or Section.” https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37134/emails-show-navys-ufo-patents-went-through-significant-internal-review-resulted-in-a-demo https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37134/emails-show-navy...
- ubertoop 6y ago
  That's fair, but then how do you explain the Tic Tac UFO reports from US Navy pilots? [1] [1] https://youtu.be/PkPn-YMp9vI https://youtu.be/PkPn-YMp9vI
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard Worlds most advanced Navy systems and crews and all I get are fuzzy pics and descriptions.
    - pp19dd 6y ago
      Might be worth something to watch part of the Lex Fridman interview with one of the pilots, David Fravor. The entire podcast is four hours long and goes over his career and experiences, I'd argue establishes him as a competent naval officer and pilot. The timecode is when he describes the actual event- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E&t=4264s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E&t=4264s In the interview he also describes the record keeping process and basically some of the head scratchers you're bringing about. One other thing the pilot confirms in that interview is the validity (authenticity) of the leaked "Executive Summary" report, which, was leaked to media and (as far as I know) not really pursued for authenticity verification by others (PDF): https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document_dev/2018/05/18/TIC%20TAC%20UFO%20EXECUTIVE%20REPORT_1526682843046_42960218_ver1.0.pdf https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document...
      - mcswell 6y ago
        I think it was Richard Feynman who said the easiest person in the world to fool is yourself. I have no doubt this pilot is a good officer and pilot, but that doesn't mean he saw what he thinks he saw.
        ubertoop 6y ago
        He is not the only highly qualified navy pilot who saw these crafts. [1] And the 2004 event is not the only time the US Navy has seen these crafts. There was another event in 2014. [2] [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-and-a-with-navy-pilot-chad-underwood.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-... [2} https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings...
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        pp19dd 6y ago
        Oh, no, sorry - I deliberately didn't interpret the validity of the claim or try to address it. I don't live in the dream land, and I try to double check reality best I can. To this day all I have from all this is head scratching and we have no proof of anything aside from that the Pentagon -for whatever reason- has confirmed that the cockpit videos were genuinely released by them. You can request them yourself from the Pentagon, directly. I am convinced that the man is a good officer and a competent pilot. That is all. Occam's razor: things outlined in that report are true -or - the man is a true patriot, participating in a disinformation campaign design to bankrupt the Chinese or Russians in attempting to recreate some of the very expensive things outlined in the larger picture described here. But I keep peeled to anything related to this story because the implication behind the claims are potentially world-changing.
  - nobodywasishere 6y ago
    All three of these videos have perfectly reasonable explanations. See [1] [2] [3] [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=mfhAC2YiYHs https://youtube.com/watch?v=mfhAC2YiYHs [2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=3viYcYPRdu4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=3viYcYPRdu4 [3] https://youtube.com/watch?v=jWWGmiZs4JA https://youtube.com/watch?v=jWWGmiZs4JA
- gbh444g 6y ago
  Or maybe he's another Edison. I mean, he's likely the nominal inventor: other people do the research, but only his name appears on papers.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    Any of 5 or so of those patents would win a Nobel Prize if real. And any PhD working with/for him would have strangled him already if he left contributors off.
    - frongpik 6y ago
      Nobel prize is a measly sum of money split among all contributors, plus some fame.
raiflip 6y ago
Regardless of whether or not gravitons actually exist, it is feasible that the US government will want to signal to adversaries that they do have this technology. After all, a deterrent is useless if your adversary doesn't know it exists. You can't be deterred by something you don't know about.
jb775 6y ago
I don't see any reason for a public patent besides disinformation. I don't think any foreign gov would fall for this, so my guess is a disinformation campaign against average people...to make them think this is the current state of flight technology. (I think it's significantly greater. The underlying mechanisms here have been known for a very long time. Just look into the details and date ranges of: the piesel electric effect, work of Harold Aspden, Planck's equation, Maxwell's equation, Robert Adam's motor, Dewey Larson physics)
- radicaldreamer 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on what you think the current state is?
jml7c5 6y ago
It's crackpots the whole way down. The whole Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (which is responsible for the release of the Navy UFO videos) was spearheaded by Robert Bigelow, who bought "Skinwalker Ranch" because he believed there were inter-dimensional portals and aliens were mutilating cows. It turns out crackpots can get government funding, too.

ksaj 6y ago

This relies on the existence of the graviton, which at this point is is not actually known to exist. Some would even argue that there is no reason for it to exist. There are a few competing theories of gravity that don't jive at all with what's discussed in pseudo-factual language in the patent. It doesn't help that his only source cited seems to be his own, albeit peer reviewed, paper. I hope that paper at least cites someone other than himself. So all this talk about gravitons being EM and photon carriers is a whole lot of guestimating. It doesn't seem to connect in any way with LIGO's expectations and results. It makes sense to patent an idea based on what he's hoping will eventually become a fleshed out scientific theory with proofs and whatnot, it doesn't mean any of it will turn out to be correct. It just means if it does find proof, he could get rich.

new_guy 6y ago
> It makes sense to patent an idea based on what he's hoping will eventually become a fleshed out scientific theory with proofs and whatnot, it doesn't mean any of it will turn out to be correct. It just means if it does find proof, he could get rich. It would just make him yet another patent troll. The US patent system is beyond absurd. Unless he can physically demonstrate a fully working 'gravitational wave generator', the patent shouldn't be granted.
- ubertoop 6y ago
  Maybe, but the patent is also owned by the US Navy. Why? And what does this have to do - if anything - with the same shape UFO reported by the US Navy in 2004?
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    It's owned by the Navy because the inventor is an employee of the Navy who wrote the patent on DOD time and used DOD resources. They almost have certainly have a policy requiring that under those circumstances the patent must be assigned to the Navy
- ksaj 6y ago

philip142au 6y ago

It’s rubbish, whatever propulsion method you have you still need to push the air out of the way to move the thing forwards which takes the same energy using imaginary gravitational waves or a jet engine. No magic is going to make the air get out of the way any faster

evilduck 6y ago
We're well within the realm of sci-fi speculation here, but if you have a gravity generation device that can be directed you could augment traditional aircraft to safely allow for high G maneuvers or sustained accelerations that would otherwise be harmful to the pilot or the airframe. That would have some tactical advantages even if it doesn't mean it helps us go faster.
stevenalowe 6y ago
it's intended for use in space, phil.
- gus_massa 6y ago
  The main idea is to make a ray of gravitons (or whatever equivalent in other possible extensions of general relativity). For theoretical reasons, the ratio of momentum to energy is fixed at 1/c, which is 3.3E-6 N/kW, that is very low compared to ion thrusters or chemical rockets. Moreover it's the same value that you get with a photon rocket, i.e a laser or a flashlight in the back of your rocket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_rocket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_rocket So even in space, it is not very useful and you can replace it with a more simple and more efficient device.
thysultan 6y ago
The appeal of gravitational propulsion is in replacing xyz propulsion fuel with electricity regardless of medium(vacuum or not).

lwansbrough 6y ago

This whole thing has a very boring, very likely answer described in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8&t=1300s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8&t=1300s Essentially, there are a few different perspective/camera quirks coming together in these videos which can (apparently) trick even well trained pilots.

miles 6y ago
> there are a few different perspective/camera quirks coming together in these videos which can (apparently) trick even well trained pilots. How does that explain the radar readings? "The tic tac – so-called because of its rounded shape and white colour – was caught on video as the US Navy attempted to identify a series of objects spotted on radar flying off America’s west coast in November 2004. ... The sighting came during a fortnight in which the USS Princeton had noted unknown aircraft intermittently passing across its radar systems off the US west coast. The contact was considered so inexplicable that the system was shut down and restarted to check for bugs — but operators continued to track the mysterious object afterwards."[1] "Witnesses included highly trained military personnel—among them several deeply experienced radar operators and fighter pilots—who at the time of the sightings were at the controls of arguably the most advanced flight technology ever created. And yet none can explain what they saw."[2] Does Mick West, a "science writer, skeptical investigator, and retired video game programmer"[3], know more about the issue than "highly trained military personnel—among them several deeply experienced radar operators and fighter pilots"? [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ufo-tic-tac-flying-saucer-chad-underwoord-dave-fravor-a9254671.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ufo-tic-tac-flyin... [2] https://www.history.com/news/uss-nimitz-2004-tic-tac-ufo-encounter https://www.history.com/news/uss-nimitz-2004-tic-tac-ufo-enc... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_West https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_West
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Mick Wests breakdown is sufficient to explain all of the actual footage we have, and you can verify it yourself by doing trigonometry with the data on the screen. It's completely unnecessary to appeal to the credentials of fighter pilots, following this logic I'd have to believe in Mermaids given how many sailors have allegedly spotted one over the centuries. It's truly astonishing that a man who provides a basic, mundane and evidence based explanation that someone can follow along at home is routinely downvoted while people upvoted UFO alien conspiracy garbage.

ihunter2839 6y ago

Curious as to what others here think about the idea that the Tic Tac UFO could be some sort of high energy particle beam being controlled from the ground? My mom unfortunately passed from cancer, but she was able to get proton beam therapy for a tumor that would have been inaccessible with traditional radiation. This, as I understand it, is because a proton beam sheds the majority of it's energy at the very end of it's flight, allowing internal tissues to be targeted more directly. I wonder - what would it look like if you made a proton beam and pointed it to the sky? Could you create a glowing area, much like the Tic Tac, that could be used to throw off enemy radar? I am legitimately curious, as my physics background is so so at best.

bori5 6y ago
All those strange lights in the desert around that Area 51 place ...https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/so-ya-dont-believe-it-was-a-proton-beam-eh/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strang...
8bitsrule 6y ago
Those 'things' fly at hologram speeds, turn hologram corners. Given a relatively stable atmosphere (on some days), could the 'Bragg Peak' be controlled enough? Radar signature? Interesting hypothesis. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragg_peak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragg_peak]
swader999 6y ago
The viking man has a good run down on all this tech: https://rumble.com/vbodst-u.s.-space-force-technologies-and-history.html https://rumble.com/vbodst-u.s.-space-force-technologies-and-...
- maxden 6y ago
  aka the "QAnon Shaman" from the Capitol Hill riots.
egfx 6y ago
Yep. I had this thought from the very beginning. It checks all the boxes for me because I had a personal experience with the exact same thing as what's being popularly described, a white glowing bouncing ping pong ball object moving very very erratically in the night sky. Iv'e commented a few times about it but I found this interesting, Advances in Radar Techniques. (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Advances_in_Radar_Techniques/vS0fAQAAIAAJ?hl=en https://www.google.com/books/edition/Advances_in_Radar_Techn...) which says that one of the most recent advances is the ability to detect holograms. It's a bit curious considering everything.

avl999 6y ago

Is this the beginning of a cover story that the intelligence agencies are setting up in reaction to congress passing a provision to be briefed on UFO research within 180 days as part of the covid funding bill? Also note that David Fravor encountered the Tic Tac UFO tech in the early 2000s about 13 years before the publishing of this paper.

nether 6y ago

Title is editorializing, there's no mention of the tic tac UFO in the patent. Also Pais has a number of crazy patent applications like this that have yet to see any real world implementation.

antognini 6y ago

Tangentially related, but when I was an undergrad at Caltech there was a device in a nook of the astrophysics building labeled "Gravitational wave generator" that had the appropriate two-decades-outdated look of equipment you'd find in a random physics lab. It was two little weights in the shape of a dumbbell attached to a motor. There was a knob that allowed you to specify the frequency of the gravitational waves you wanted to generate, and when you flipped it on, the weights would start spinning, thereby generating gravitational waves at your specified frequency. I always found it amusing that someone went to the trouble to make that.

adamredwoods 6y ago

> the acoustic energy from the at least two sound generators causing each of the electrically charged cavity surfaces to vibrate such that a second electromagnetic field is generated; This patent claims to create electromagnetic waves from sound waves vibrating gas? Seems like an inefficient way to create an electromagnetic field (if even possible)?

alisaus 6y ago

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Smooth-Weather 6y ago

The Tic-Tac UFO probably use MHD propulsion to move. It allows ionized air displacement in all directions depending on electrodes on the ship. So, no air resistance, no sound barrier. It move itself silently, it can move also under water, the same way it moves in the air, by displacing the water around it. It can sustain itself and accelerate in any direction depending on which electrodes are activated and so, to which direction the air is sucked. It would require a great source of energy to surround the ship surface (for something around 20m long in size) by plasma, should require something around 80000 Gauss and 1000 Megawatts for the electrical discharge.

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
interesting, entertaining the stuff around USO lore though, wouldn't the energy required to navigate around the bottom of the ocean be immense though (more than whatever you calculated)?