5 ms·

I read somewhere that Beethoven could hear by biting down on a piece of metal (on his piano?) that acted like a bone-conduction[1] hearing aid. If this is true

I read somewhere that Beethoven could hear by biting down on a piece of metal (on his piano?) that acted like a bone-conduction[1] hearing aid. If this is true, then the popular conception of Beethoven being completely unable to hear while composing his masterpieces is mistaken. I'd love to learn more (or be corrected) from anyone who knows more about this. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_conduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_conduction

black6 6y ago
I recall a story about him having the legs sawn off a grand piano so that he could lay with his head on the floor while playing to "hear" the notes.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Typically they are attached with screws, so no need to use a saw. Also, it would be far more efficient to somehow make a connection to the bridge because that's where the signal is the strongest, the case doesn't carry all that much sound though it does reflect it if the lid is up.
- aae42 6y ago
  sounds like something from Mr. Holland's Opus
idoubtit 6y ago
His most famous sonata were published in 1798, 1801 (Moonlight), and 1803. By then, he suffered from tinnitus and knew he was to loose his audition, but he could still hear. He gradually lost his audition during the 1810s and was deaf by the end of the decade. TL;DR Beethoven wrote his masterpieces sonata at a time were he could certainly hear them.
- andrepd 6y ago
  Many of Beethoven's greatest works were composed when he was fully deaf (most famously his 9th Symphony, but also the Late Quartets, Grosse Fugue, etc.)
- darkerside 6y ago
  This is useful context. His sonatas are truly masterpieces, not to say that his other incredible works are not.
  - ec123 6y ago
    His greatest sonata “Hammerklavier” was written when he was almost completely deaf in 1818. I think this commenter’s insinuation that Beethoven’s best work happened while he could hear is largely false. Op 132, op 132, grosse fuge, 9th etc
    - darkerside 6y ago
      I think it was more of an argument against there being any correlation at all, which I think is a reasonable one
dehrmann 6y ago
> completely unable to hear while composing his masterpieces I'm not sure how true those stories are, but as someone with only some musical experience, I don't find an experienced composer who continued to compose after going deaf that crazy. I can "hear" songs in my head easy enough, and composers are pretty good at transcribing what they hear onto paper.
- corin_ 6y ago
  I feel that way about the idea of coming up with a simple tune after going deaf, but hearing a full symphony you're composing while deaf is a whole new level. Then again, despite being a professional singer when I was young and then attempting to study composing I discovered I have no skill for it - so composing even a simple orchestral piece without being deaf seems complex to me.
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    It's not that hard if you have a theory of music like a pro like Beethoven does. It's like writing a program. You aren't picking a note at a time, you are laying down "tracks" with parameters.
williamdclt 6y ago
I used to put my teeth against the neck of my bass guitar when tuning it sometimes, to hear the notes better (when unplugged, of course). It really works, especially when tuning with harmonics as you can physically feel the "phase" from two almost-the-same-frequency-but-not-quite notes. You look like an idiot though, get yourself an electric tuner it's like £10.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  I assume there are plenty of examples of people using their senses in unexpected ways to diagnose issues, and it’s always interesting to me. Eg mechanics smelling engine oil, or (closer to home) MRI staff who can listen to MRI sequences and hear problems.
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    This reminds me of a fascinating article I once read about the lost art of diagnosing diseases by smell, and told of a senior doctor in a bygone era advising his students to open all their senses when meeting a patient for the first time. Apparently some diseases have characteristic smells, but these days medical students are rarely trained to recognize them.
    - astrange 6y ago
      Dogs can supposedly tell when humans are sick because of this, even before they know themselves.
    - autoro 6y ago
      There is a case of a woman in England that can smell Parkinson [1]. I think that when I read about it was the first time I really understood that smell is a generic sense that can detect certain molecules and that there is much more information encoded in the air around us. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-47627179 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-47627179
  - williamdclt 6y ago
    There was an HN post recently (or a comment? can't remember) about playing a beep when memory is allocated/released in a program. The claim was that you can hear weird allocation patterns. Similarly most of us could probably diagnose some faulty hard drive issues by ear

black6 6y ago

I recall a story about him having the legs sawn off a grand piano so that he could lay with his head on the floor while playing to "hear" the notes.

jacquesm 6y ago
Typically they are attached with screws, so no need to use a saw. Also, it would be far more efficient to somehow make a connection to the bridge because that's where the signal is the strongest, the case doesn't carry all that much sound though it does reflect it if the lid is up.
aae42 6y ago
sounds like something from Mr. Holland's Opus

idoubtit 6y ago

His most famous sonata were published in 1798, 1801 (Moonlight), and 1803. By then, he suffered from tinnitus and knew he was to loose his audition, but he could still hear. He gradually lost his audition during the 1810s and was deaf by the end of the decade. TL;DR Beethoven wrote his masterpieces sonata at a time were he could certainly hear them.

andrepd 6y ago
Many of Beethoven's greatest works were composed when he was fully deaf (most famously his 9th Symphony, but also the Late Quartets, Grosse Fugue, etc.)
darkerside 6y ago
This is useful context. His sonatas are truly masterpieces, not to say that his other incredible works are not.
- ec123 6y ago
  His greatest sonata “Hammerklavier” was written when he was almost completely deaf in 1818. I think this commenter’s insinuation that Beethoven’s best work happened while he could hear is largely false. Op 132, op 132, grosse fuge, 9th etc
  - darkerside 6y ago
    I think it was more of an argument against there being any correlation at all, which I think is a reasonable one

dehrmann 6y ago

> completely unable to hear while composing his masterpieces I'm not sure how true those stories are, but as someone with only some musical experience, I don't find an experienced composer who continued to compose after going deaf that crazy. I can "hear" songs in my head easy enough, and composers are pretty good at transcribing what they hear onto paper.

corin_ 6y ago
I feel that way about the idea of coming up with a simple tune after going deaf, but hearing a full symphony you're composing while deaf is a whole new level. Then again, despite being a professional singer when I was young and then attempting to study composing I discovered I have no skill for it - so composing even a simple orchestral piece without being deaf seems complex to me.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  It's not that hard if you have a theory of music like a pro like Beethoven does. It's like writing a program. You aren't picking a note at a time, you are laying down "tracks" with parameters.

williamdclt 6y ago

I used to put my teeth against the neck of my bass guitar when tuning it sometimes, to hear the notes better (when unplugged, of course). It really works, especially when tuning with harmonics as you can physically feel the "phase" from two almost-the-same-frequency-but-not-quite notes. You look like an idiot though, get yourself an electric tuner it's like £10.

lostlogin 6y ago
I assume there are plenty of examples of people using their senses in unexpected ways to diagnose issues, and it’s always interesting to me. Eg mechanics smelling engine oil, or (closer to home) MRI staff who can listen to MRI sequences and hear problems.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  This reminds me of a fascinating article I once read about the lost art of diagnosing diseases by smell, and told of a senior doctor in a bygone era advising his students to open all their senses when meeting a patient for the first time. Apparently some diseases have characteristic smells, but these days medical students are rarely trained to recognize them.
  - astrange 6y ago
    Dogs can supposedly tell when humans are sick because of this, even before they know themselves.
  - autoro 6y ago
    There is a case of a woman in England that can smell Parkinson [1]. I think that when I read about it was the first time I really understood that smell is a generic sense that can detect certain molecules and that there is much more information encoded in the air around us. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-47627179 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-47627179
- williamdclt 6y ago
  There was an HN post recently (or a comment? can't remember) about playing a beep when memory is allocated/released in a program. The claim was that you can hear weird allocation patterns. Similarly most of us could probably diagnose some faulty hard drive issues by ear