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> If they walk into a room with other characters, those characters should acknowledge them by at least looking at them, if not calling out their name. If only

> If they walk into a room with other characters, those characters should acknowledge them by at least looking at them, if not calling out their name. If only Gordon returned this courtesy. Silent protagonists are such an awful thing.

nitrogen 6y ago
You are Gordon. Did you acknowledge the NPCs by looking at them?
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  I realize why they do it, but it can never work because the n.p.c.'s do not react to me in return. I can talk to them, say things to them, but they will never respond to anything I say. Thus, the end result is that Gordon Freeman is a man whom many speak to, yet who never speaks back, and no one considers this to odd to say the least. — the conversations thus appear ridiculous. It worked better with Chell, because others do not that Chell does not speak back, and Chell actually canonically refuses to speak out of stubbornness, so it's amusing to see Wheatley being obviously uncomfortable from the fact that Chell does not speak back and is simply blabbering to fill the awkward silence.
  - partlysean 6y ago
    NPCs in Half-Life 2 mentioned a number of times that Gordon doesn’t say much and is a “man of few words.” I’m sure this is a nod to his silence in the first game as much as it’s a storytelling device. I’ve always liked that his character never said anything—feels like Gordon can be anyone. Same goes for the lack of cutscenes that take control of the player’s camera. You always feel like you’re looking from your own POV vs. being pulled out of the immersion.
    - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
      > NPCs in Half-Life 2 mentioned a number of times that Gordon doesn’t say much and is a “man of few words.” I’m sure this is a nod to his silence in the first game as much as it’s a storytelling device. That is an in-joke at best and does very little to rectify that n.p.c.'s have entire “conversations” with him and at no point ask as to why he's remaining quiet throughout it. — the conversations are simply completely implausible. > I’ve always liked that his character never said anything—feels like Gordon can be anyone. Same goes for the lack of cutscenes that take control of the player’s camera. You always feel like you’re looking from your own POV vs. being pulled out of the immersion. Perhaps if one go about his daily life talking to walls and being completely disinterested in what a man might have to reflect back. Whether you reply back to them or not, it always leads to an unnatural conversation where one party is talking to a wall that doesn't respond.
dx87 6y ago
I'd much rather the protagonist be silent in an FPS. It ruins the immersion for me, unless there are dialogue choices so I still have some agency. I quit playing Dishonored 2 after a couple of hours because the protagonist keeps talking as a way to narrate things for the player, but it's just silly being a stealth assassin constantly talking to yourself.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  Obviously in a stealth game it makes no sense for the protagonist to talk. But it does not make sense either that a protagonist not answer when he be spoken to. It was quite ridiculous in StarCraft where there was a player character who had a rank and was an actual character, his allies discuss strategic plans with him and talk to him, but he never speaks back, and is only addressed by title, for he lacks a name. In StarCraft II, the game withdrew from the notion of a “player character” and the player simply took control of various different actual characters with dialog and a face.
  - hypertexthero 6y ago
    I think silent protagonists are excellent, and when done well make me feel more immersed in a game. Three excellent games with them, off the top of my head: Metal Gear Solid 5, Half-Life, and Far Cry 2. I stopped playing Cyberpunk 2077 mainly because the protagonist’s dialogue and voices didn’t make me like the character.
  - enneff 6y ago
    > But it does not make sense either that a protagonist not answer when he be spoken to. It may not make sense to you, but when I played through the half life games I found them more immersive than any games I had played.
danbolt 6y ago
I think games will have their protagonist be some cocktail of “this character is me” and “this character is not me but controlled by me”. I think a competent game will usually to try pick a mix that’s in best-service of the experience. Gordon Freeman, Mario, or Cloud Strife all do this in different amounts.
tomc1985 6y ago
I beg to differ, and in any case HL was explicitly designed this way. It can be really discordant when the protagonists speaks for you but isn't really in-line with the character you're roleplaying. Making them silent is a neat way of not breaking that immersion
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  More discordant than the fact that he has completely implausible conversations with everyone but either everyone talks to him and he never talks back or provides input or as much as acknowledgement that he hears them, or conversely, if the player simply talk back to them in his head, the fact that no one says anything back to what he is saying? Role playing a video game character does not work until artificial intelligence matures to the point that a computer might have a meaningful conversation with a man.
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    The idea is that the player fills in their response in their imagination. Though, I think it's a little fourth-wall-breaking when NPCs comment on the player's silence. No future-AI needed.
    - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
      I know, but as I said, the n.p.c.s don't respond to the player's imagined responses so it doesn't solve the problem that he conversations are implausible and silly. Either the player doesn't imagine a response, and the n.p.c.s are talking to a wall and act as if that be normal. Or the player does formulate a response, and Gordon Freeman is talking to walls, and acts as if that be normal.
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Interesting it's canon that Freeman is not simply mute, although I wish they hadn't closed the door on that interpretation. https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Gordon_Freeman https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Gordon_Freeman
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  Even if he be, most other characters do not treat him as such, and do not remark upon the fact even after having just met him and have no way of knowing, that he never speaks back. It provides for a very surreal experience.

nitrogen 6y ago

You are Gordon. Did you acknowledge the NPCs by looking at them?

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
I realize why they do it, but it can never work because the n.p.c.'s do not react to me in return. I can talk to them, say things to them, but they will never respond to anything I say. Thus, the end result is that Gordon Freeman is a man whom many speak to, yet who never speaks back, and no one considers this to odd to say the least. — the conversations thus appear ridiculous. It worked better with Chell, because others do not that Chell does not speak back, and Chell actually canonically refuses to speak out of stubbornness, so it's amusing to see Wheatley being obviously uncomfortable from the fact that Chell does not speak back and is simply blabbering to fill the awkward silence.
- partlysean 6y ago
  NPCs in Half-Life 2 mentioned a number of times that Gordon doesn’t say much and is a “man of few words.” I’m sure this is a nod to his silence in the first game as much as it’s a storytelling device. I’ve always liked that his character never said anything—feels like Gordon can be anyone. Same goes for the lack of cutscenes that take control of the player’s camera. You always feel like you’re looking from your own POV vs. being pulled out of the immersion.
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    > NPCs in Half-Life 2 mentioned a number of times that Gordon doesn’t say much and is a “man of few words.” I’m sure this is a nod to his silence in the first game as much as it’s a storytelling device. That is an in-joke at best and does very little to rectify that n.p.c.'s have entire “conversations” with him and at no point ask as to why he's remaining quiet throughout it. — the conversations are simply completely implausible. > I’ve always liked that his character never said anything—feels like Gordon can be anyone. Same goes for the lack of cutscenes that take control of the player’s camera. You always feel like you’re looking from your own POV vs. being pulled out of the immersion. Perhaps if one go about his daily life talking to walls and being completely disinterested in what a man might have to reflect back. Whether you reply back to them or not, it always leads to an unnatural conversation where one party is talking to a wall that doesn't respond.

dx87 6y ago

I'd much rather the protagonist be silent in an FPS. It ruins the immersion for me, unless there are dialogue choices so I still have some agency. I quit playing Dishonored 2 after a couple of hours because the protagonist keeps talking as a way to narrate things for the player, but it's just silly being a stealth assassin constantly talking to yourself.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Obviously in a stealth game it makes no sense for the protagonist to talk. But it does not make sense either that a protagonist not answer when he be spoken to. It was quite ridiculous in StarCraft where there was a player character who had a rank and was an actual character, his allies discuss strategic plans with him and talk to him, but he never speaks back, and is only addressed by title, for he lacks a name. In StarCraft II, the game withdrew from the notion of a “player character” and the player simply took control of various different actual characters with dialog and a face.
- hypertexthero 6y ago
  I think silent protagonists are excellent, and when done well make me feel more immersed in a game. Three excellent games with them, off the top of my head: Metal Gear Solid 5, Half-Life, and Far Cry 2. I stopped playing Cyberpunk 2077 mainly because the protagonist’s dialogue and voices didn’t make me like the character.
- enneff 6y ago
  > But it does not make sense either that a protagonist not answer when he be spoken to. It may not make sense to you, but when I played through the half life games I found them more immersive than any games I had played.

danbolt 6y ago

I think games will have their protagonist be some cocktail of “this character is me” and “this character is not me but controlled by me”. I think a competent game will usually to try pick a mix that’s in best-service of the experience. Gordon Freeman, Mario, or Cloud Strife all do this in different amounts.

tomc1985 6y ago

I beg to differ, and in any case HL was explicitly designed this way. It can be really discordant when the protagonists speaks for you but isn't really in-line with the character you're roleplaying. Making them silent is a neat way of not breaking that immersion

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
More discordant than the fact that he has completely implausible conversations with everyone but either everyone talks to him and he never talks back or provides input or as much as acknowledgement that he hears them, or conversely, if the player simply talk back to them in his head, the fact that no one says anything back to what he is saying? Role playing a video game character does not work until artificial intelligence matures to the point that a computer might have a meaningful conversation with a man.
- tomc1985 6y ago
  The idea is that the player fills in their response in their imagination. Though, I think it's a little fourth-wall-breaking when NPCs comment on the player's silence. No future-AI needed.
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    I know, but as I said, the n.p.c.s don't respond to the player's imagined responses so it doesn't solve the problem that he conversations are implausible and silly. Either the player doesn't imagine a response, and the n.p.c.s are talking to a wall and act as if that be normal. Or the player does formulate a response, and Gordon Freeman is talking to walls, and acts as if that be normal.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

Interesting it's canon that Freeman is not simply mute, although I wish they hadn't closed the door on that interpretation. https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Gordon_Freeman https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Gordon_Freeman

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Even if he be, most other characters do not treat him as such, and do not remark upon the fact even after having just met him and have no way of knowing, that he never speaks back. It provides for a very surreal experience.