4 ms·

I wonder to what extent studies like this have things backwards to a certain extent? It's not that an engineering degree is more lucrative than an English degre

by jfruh 15y ago

I wonder to what extent studies like this have things backwards to a certain extent? It's not that an engineering degree is more lucrative than an English degree, exactly; it's that if you want to be an engineer, you major in engineering, and then you go into a more lucrative field. Does that make sense? It's not that the degree that has some major predicative power -- it's that some fields are more lucrative than others, and people who want to go into those fields choose particular majors. I do also think that the survey is flawed in that it doesn't track post-bachelors degrees. Psychology degree holders came in at the bottom of the list, but anyone who knows even a little bit about the mental health field knows that virtually all practioners have masters degrees or PHDs. So, yeah, if you just get a BA in psychology, you probably aren't making very much, not least because you probably aren't working in the mental health field as anything other than an entry level person.

owenmarshall 15y ago
>I do also think that the survey is flawed in that it doesn't track post-bachelors degrees. Psychology degree holders came in at the bottom of the list, but anyone who knows even a little bit about the mental health field knows that virtually all practioners have masters degrees or PHDs. So, yeah, if you just get a BA in psychology, you probably aren't making very much, not least because you probably aren't working in the mental health field as anything other than an entry level person. As a study that compares bachelor degree to bachelor degree, this is still useful. To wit, I don't know of a school that charges more for a lucrative BS in CS than a less-useful BS in psychology, nor one that charges less for degrees that can only be used as stepping stones. That said, a study that includes post-bachelor degrees in the ranking would be interesting. What would be especially informative would be a combined ranking that factors the average cost of education in with the average earnings increase/decrease. Perhaps a masters in psychology still gets you less than a BS in mathematics, perhaps not, but it would be neat to see.
- jarek 15y ago
  > To wit, I don't know of a school that charges more for a lucrative BS in CS than a less-useful BS in psychology My alma mater, a public university in Ontario, Canada does this, but it appears to have more to do with government regulation of certain programs. Per-term fees differ by faculty, with arts and mathematics (not inluding CS) being almost the same, CS being much higher, and engineering slightly above CS.
  - owenmarshall 15y ago
    >My alma mater, a public university in Ontario, Canada does this, but it appears to have more to do with government regulation of certain programs. Good! This is, IMO, the best approach to degree programs. People could study what interests them without mountains of debt when leaving school. >Per-term fees differ by faculty, with arts and mathematics (not inluding CS) being almost the same, CS being much higher Interesting. I've always heard that a proper computer science curriculum is almost indistinguishable from an applied mathematics curriculum, and that it's in computer engineering/programming/applied computer science/(yadda yadda) that the real bacon is made. Of course, I've never taken classes in a true CS curriculum, so I really can't say.
    - jarek 15y ago
      I may be slightly embittered towards my school, but I think the difference has more to do with what they are allowed to charge than with actual curriculum differences. Here are the actual amounts, FWIW: http://www.adm.uwaterloo.ca/infofin/students/UG%20Schedule%20of%20Fees%20Current.pdf http://www.adm.uwaterloo.ca/infofin/students/UG%20Schedule%2...
- jfruh 15y ago
  >That said, a study that includes post-bachelor degrees in the ranking would be interesting. What would be especially informative would be a combined ranking that factors the average cost of education in with the average earnings increase/decrease. Yeah, I think the most useful comparison would be to make comparisons based on the average return for the most typical terminal degree in your field would be, or at least to give you a suite of responses based on varying degrees. >Perhaps a masters in psychology still gets you less than a BS in mathematics, perhaps not, but it would be neat to see. As a side note, is a BS in pure math particularly useful, beyond the fact that it's a bachelor's degree? That always struck me as one of those disciplines that would require an advanced degree to be of use. (My freshman year calculus TA, when asked by one of his students if he was going for a master's, said, "No, I'm a PHD student. The master's degree is the door prize of mathematics.")
  - owenmarshall 15y ago
    >As a side note, is a BS in pure math particularly useful, beyond the fact that it's a bachelor's degree? That always struck me as one of those disciplines that would require an advanced degree to be of use. Note that I don't have a masters/PhD in mathematics, so take this with a grain of salt. But from what I've seen, if you want to actively study & research mathematics, it's PhD or bust. If, however, you want to be a software developer, a statistician, or to work in finance, for example, a BS in mathematics will serve you quite nicely. It may even have a slight advantage in that it's a bit more versatile: I'm currently working as a software developer but could take the degree any number of other directions. And for other degree paths, it's simply useful as a bachelor's degree -- though I have had friends indicate that they found non-technical (managerial, sales, etc.) jobs insanely quickly with a BS in math or physics. They always attributed it to the inherent difficulty of the degree; of course, that's just anecdotal, so I'm not sure if that's really the case or not.

by jfruh 15y ago

owenmarshall 15y ago

>I do also think that the survey is flawed in that it doesn't track post-bachelors degrees. Psychology degree holders came in at the bottom of the list, but anyone who knows even a little bit about the mental health field knows that virtually all practioners have masters degrees or PHDs. So, yeah, if you just get a BA in psychology, you probably aren't making very much, not least because you probably aren't working in the mental health field as anything other than an entry level person. As a study that compares bachelor degree to bachelor degree, this is still useful. To wit, I don't know of a school that charges more for a lucrative BS in CS than a less-useful BS in psychology, nor one that charges less for degrees that can only be used as stepping stones. That said, a study that includes post-bachelor degrees in the ranking would be interesting. What would be especially informative would be a combined ranking that factors the average cost of education in with the average earnings increase/decrease. Perhaps a masters in psychology still gets you less than a BS in mathematics, perhaps not, but it would be neat to see.

jarek 15y ago
> To wit, I don't know of a school that charges more for a lucrative BS in CS than a less-useful BS in psychology My alma mater, a public university in Ontario, Canada does this, but it appears to have more to do with government regulation of certain programs. Per-term fees differ by faculty, with arts and mathematics (not inluding CS) being almost the same, CS being much higher, and engineering slightly above CS.
- owenmarshall 15y ago
  >My alma mater, a public university in Ontario, Canada does this, but it appears to have more to do with government regulation of certain programs. Good! This is, IMO, the best approach to degree programs. People could study what interests them without mountains of debt when leaving school. >Per-term fees differ by faculty, with arts and mathematics (not inluding CS) being almost the same, CS being much higher Interesting. I've always heard that a proper computer science curriculum is almost indistinguishable from an applied mathematics curriculum, and that it's in computer engineering/programming/applied computer science/(yadda yadda) that the real bacon is made. Of course, I've never taken classes in a true CS curriculum, so I really can't say.
  - jarek 15y ago
    I may be slightly embittered towards my school, but I think the difference has more to do with what they are allowed to charge than with actual curriculum differences. Here are the actual amounts, FWIW: http://www.adm.uwaterloo.ca/infofin/students/UG%20Schedule%20of%20Fees%20Current.pdf http://www.adm.uwaterloo.ca/infofin/students/UG%20Schedule%2...
jfruh 15y ago
>That said, a study that includes post-bachelor degrees in the ranking would be interesting. What would be especially informative would be a combined ranking that factors the average cost of education in with the average earnings increase/decrease. Yeah, I think the most useful comparison would be to make comparisons based on the average return for the most typical terminal degree in your field would be, or at least to give you a suite of responses based on varying degrees. >Perhaps a masters in psychology still gets you less than a BS in mathematics, perhaps not, but it would be neat to see. As a side note, is a BS in pure math particularly useful, beyond the fact that it's a bachelor's degree? That always struck me as one of those disciplines that would require an advanced degree to be of use. (My freshman year calculus TA, when asked by one of his students if he was going for a master's, said, "No, I'm a PHD student. The master's degree is the door prize of mathematics.")
- owenmarshall 15y ago
  >As a side note, is a BS in pure math particularly useful, beyond the fact that it's a bachelor's degree? That always struck me as one of those disciplines that would require an advanced degree to be of use. Note that I don't have a masters/PhD in mathematics, so take this with a grain of salt. But from what I've seen, if you want to actively study & research mathematics, it's PhD or bust. If, however, you want to be a software developer, a statistician, or to work in finance, for example, a BS in mathematics will serve you quite nicely. It may even have a slight advantage in that it's a bit more versatile: I'm currently working as a software developer but could take the degree any number of other directions. And for other degree paths, it's simply useful as a bachelor's degree -- though I have had friends indicate that they found non-technical (managerial, sales, etc.) jobs insanely quickly with a BS in math or physics. They always attributed it to the inherent difficulty of the degree; of course, that's just anecdotal, so I'm not sure if that's really the case or not.