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I think the article touches on a distinction between these things: > Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into

I think the article touches on a distinction between these things: > Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into upbeat intolerance by implying that it’s not OK to want to work on tummy folds or laugh lines. I read the Cosmo cover as suggesting "it's OK to not want to change your body", toxic positivity would be "it's not OK to want to change your body". In that case, toxic positivity is more restricting -- it's the difference between "it's fine to not be sad" and "it's not fine to be sad".

Der_Einzige 6y ago
I claim "it's OK to not want to change your body" is itself toxic positivity. Yes, it's "okay" in that you should not experience body or fat-shaming for being obese. No, it's not "okay" in that you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease - and your quality of life is really terrible in comparison to people who are not obese. It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this level of disregard for out health. I think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality out of people who for whom their pain is partially or entirely self-inflicted.
- erikpukinskis 6y ago
  > you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease That's factually inaccurate. > It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this I don't believe there is any science to back this assertion up. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I doubt it's true. > think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality Actually, the opposite is true. Shame is linked with health care avoidance: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144517303790 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17401... I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? Am I understand you correctly that's your thesis?
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    > I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? GP comment doesn't claim that. You're just making this up. It's a scientific fact obesity is a health risk. What is the point in denying that?
    - erikpukinskis 6y ago
      Yes it does. GP says we should make people publicly feel that it’s not OK to not want to change their body. That’s shame. I’m not debating what’s healthy, I’m debating what we consider “ok”. “Obesity is a health risk” is a fact indeed. “All health risks are not ok” is not a scientific fact.

Der_Einzige 6y ago

I claim "it's OK to not want to change your body" is itself toxic positivity. Yes, it's "okay" in that you should not experience body or fat-shaming for being obese. No, it's not "okay" in that you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease - and your quality of life is really terrible in comparison to people who are not obese. It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this level of disregard for out health. I think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality out of people who for whom their pain is partially or entirely self-inflicted.

erikpukinskis 6y ago
> you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease That's factually inaccurate. > It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this I don't believe there is any science to back this assertion up. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I doubt it's true. > think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality Actually, the opposite is true. Shame is linked with health care avoidance: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144517303790 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17401... I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? Am I understand you correctly that's your thesis?
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  > I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? GP comment doesn't claim that. You're just making this up. It's a scientific fact obesity is a health risk. What is the point in denying that?
  - erikpukinskis 6y ago
    Yes it does. GP says we should make people publicly feel that it’s not OK to not want to change their body. That’s shame. I’m not debating what’s healthy, I’m debating what we consider “ok”. “Obesity is a health risk” is a fact indeed. “All health risks are not ok” is not a scientific fact.