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Prime example is the current Cosmo row about putting obese models on cover ("This is healthy") while Covid is rampaging in the US and killing obese people https

Prime example is the current Cosmo row about putting obese models on cover ("This is healthy") while Covid is rampaging in the US and killing obese people https://www.rt.com/news/511466-cosmo-fat-healthy-covid-cover/ https://www.rt.com/news/511466-cosmo-fat-healthy-covid-cover...

arkitaip 6y ago
That's a terrible example and your biases are showing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  TBH saying that someone with BMI 30 is "healthy" is twisting the meaning of the word beyond recognition. Is smoking healthy? Philip Morris would certainly like it if people believed that. Fortunately, they do not believe it anymore. The false dichotomy of "either you hate fat people or you feed them positive bullshit" definitely looks like toxic positivity to me. No space for "your weight will likely cause you health problems down the line, here is how you can help it" there.
hntrader 6y ago
It's a bit different to the intended meaning of toxic positivity in the article, which is about dishonest cheerfulness. Maybe we need a different name for what you're describing. Promoting metabolic disease as healthy, when it's one of the leading causes of early mortality, is certainly some type of toxicity ...
- rimiform 6y ago
  Per the article: "Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into upbeat intolerance by implying that it’s not OK to want to work on tummy folds or laugh lines." It's certainly related.
antisthenes 6y ago
This is just a corporation pandering to one of their demographics. Toxic positivity is something that happens in interpersonal communication. It's meaningless praise and excitement, bordering on condescension. It usually also comes from a person who isn't really qualified to distinguish accomplishments from regular work, because they aren't an expert in the field.
croissants 6y ago
I think the article touches on a distinction between these things: > Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into upbeat intolerance by implying that it’s not OK to want to work on tummy folds or laugh lines. I read the Cosmo cover as suggesting "it's OK to not want to change your body", toxic positivity would be "it's not OK to want to change your body". In that case, toxic positivity is more restricting -- it's the difference between "it's fine to not be sad" and "it's not fine to be sad".
- Der_Einzige 6y ago
  I claim "it's OK to not want to change your body" is itself toxic positivity. Yes, it's "okay" in that you should not experience body or fat-shaming for being obese. No, it's not "okay" in that you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease - and your quality of life is really terrible in comparison to people who are not obese. It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this level of disregard for out health. I think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality out of people who for whom their pain is partially or entirely self-inflicted.
  - erikpukinskis 6y ago
    > you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease That's factually inaccurate. > It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this I don't believe there is any science to back this assertion up. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I doubt it's true. > think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality Actually, the opposite is true. Shame is linked with health care avoidance: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144517303790 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17401... I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? Am I understand you correctly that's your thesis?
    - bitcharmer 6y ago
      > I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? GP comment doesn't claim that. You're just making this up. It's a scientific fact obesity is a health risk. What is the point in denying that?
blackearl 6y ago
It's funny that people got so mad about that cover because the article within is about how to be positive when going to the gym and doing the exercise that you're able to do. Not going "well I'm so fat already, hope is lost" For all the fat hate, there are also the people who genuinely think that being obese is healthy. What better way to get through to those people than to trojan horse them with that controversial cover?
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  I'm pretty tired of name calling like "fat hate". Obesity is a health risk; there's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.
- username90 6y ago
  If it said "Smoking is Healthy" they would have been sued to hell, and obesity cuts more years of your lifespan than smoking.

arkitaip 6y ago

That's a terrible example and your biases are showing.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
inglor_cz 6y ago
TBH saying that someone with BMI 30 is "healthy" is twisting the meaning of the word beyond recognition. Is smoking healthy? Philip Morris would certainly like it if people believed that. Fortunately, they do not believe it anymore. The false dichotomy of "either you hate fat people or you feed them positive bullshit" definitely looks like toxic positivity to me. No space for "your weight will likely cause you health problems down the line, here is how you can help it" there.

hntrader 6y ago

It's a bit different to the intended meaning of toxic positivity in the article, which is about dishonest cheerfulness. Maybe we need a different name for what you're describing. Promoting metabolic disease as healthy, when it's one of the leading causes of early mortality, is certainly some type of toxicity ...

rimiform 6y ago
Per the article: "Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into upbeat intolerance by implying that it’s not OK to want to work on tummy folds or laugh lines." It's certainly related.

antisthenes 6y ago

This is just a corporation pandering to one of their demographics. Toxic positivity is something that happens in interpersonal communication. It's meaningless praise and excitement, bordering on condescension. It usually also comes from a person who isn't really qualified to distinguish accomplishments from regular work, because they aren't an expert in the field.

croissants 6y ago

I think the article touches on a distinction between these things: > Even the oppressive insistence that we should love our body, no matter what, can tip into upbeat intolerance by implying that it’s not OK to want to work on tummy folds or laugh lines. I read the Cosmo cover as suggesting "it's OK to not want to change your body", toxic positivity would be "it's not OK to want to change your body". In that case, toxic positivity is more restricting -- it's the difference between "it's fine to not be sad" and "it's not fine to be sad".

Der_Einzige 6y ago
I claim "it's OK to not want to change your body" is itself toxic positivity. Yes, it's "okay" in that you should not experience body or fat-shaming for being obese. No, it's not "okay" in that you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease - and your quality of life is really terrible in comparison to people who are not obese. It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this level of disregard for out health. I think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality out of people who for whom their pain is partially or entirely self-inflicted.
- erikpukinskis 6y ago
  > you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease That's factually inaccurate. > It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this I don't believe there is any science to back this assertion up. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I doubt it's true. > think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality Actually, the opposite is true. Shame is linked with health care avoidance: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144517303790 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17401... I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? Am I understand you correctly that's your thesis?
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    > I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? GP comment doesn't claim that. You're just making this up. It's a scientific fact obesity is a health risk. What is the point in denying that?

blackearl 6y ago

It's funny that people got so mad about that cover because the article within is about how to be positive when going to the gym and doing the exercise that you're able to do. Not going "well I'm so fat already, hope is lost" For all the fat hate, there are also the people who genuinely think that being obese is healthy. What better way to get through to those people than to trojan horse them with that controversial cover?

bitcharmer 6y ago
I'm pretty tired of name calling like "fat hate". Obesity is a health risk; there's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.
username90 6y ago
If it said "Smoking is Healthy" they would have been sued to hell, and obesity cuts more years of your lifespan than smoking.