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They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures

They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures in.

perardi 6y ago
Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and lifespans seriously. GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not producing compliance cars. Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders, and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned to do better than the others once those obstacles are surmounted. The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I love, but the tech in it is excellent.
  - somerandomqaguy 6y ago
    GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit sold other then for compliance. [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-money-off-electric-cars-until-next-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-mon...
    - evgen 6y ago
      > GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. Tesla consistently has a larger loss per vehicle, and unlike GM there is no actual profit center to compensate if the government subsidies happen to dry up.
      - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
        Tesla's been able to improve to the point where they are still profitable without emissions credit sales. https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3d22dce9-36a8-46b9-b208-64c92e308a56/S1dbei4/WEB/TSLA-Q3-2020-Update https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3... They could cut the $330 million in R&D costs too, but i don't think they should given their niche.
    - xxpor 6y ago
      That's amazing concidering how crappy the bolt I test drove 6 months ago was. It was like they took their cheapest subcompact, threw some batteries and motors in it, and started charging $40k for a car that if it were gas would be maybe $20k at best.
      - refurb 6y ago
        Is it that amazing? GM has been squeezing efficiency out of thier ICE production lines for close to 100 years. Suddenly switch to a new type of power train and combine that with small volumes and I’m not surprised in the least it crazy expensive.
  - imglorp 6y ago
    > GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. Can they use the supercharger network? Or are they restricted to shower charging on road trips?
    - ChrisIsTaken 6y ago
      Shower charging. The bolt fast charges at 50kW up to about 40%, then gradually drops to 35kW at 55% charge state. After that the charge rate drops off horrifically, to less than 10kW above 80%. It's a compliance car designed for city driving only.

They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures in.

perardi 6y ago

Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and lifespans seriously. GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not producing compliance cars. Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders, and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned to do better than the others once those obstacles are surmounted. The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I love, but the tech in it is excellent.
- somerandomqaguy 6y ago
  GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit sold other then for compliance. [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-money-off-electric-cars-until-next-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-mon...
  - evgen 6y ago
    > GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. Tesla consistently has a larger loss per vehicle, and unlike GM there is no actual profit center to compensate if the government subsidies happen to dry up.
    - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
      Tesla's been able to improve to the point where they are still profitable without emissions credit sales. https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3d22dce9-36a8-46b9-b208-64c92e308a56/S1dbei4/WEB/TSLA-Q3-2020-Update https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3... They could cut the $330 million in R&D costs too, but i don't think they should given their niche.
  - xxpor 6y ago
    That's amazing concidering how crappy the bolt I test drove 6 months ago was. It was like they took their cheapest subcompact, threw some batteries and motors in it, and started charging $40k for a car that if it were gas would be maybe $20k at best.
    - refurb 6y ago
      Is it that amazing? GM has been squeezing efficiency out of thier ICE production lines for close to 100 years. Suddenly switch to a new type of power train and combine that with small volumes and I’m not surprised in the least it crazy expensive.
- imglorp 6y ago
  > GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. Can they use the supercharger network? Or are they restricted to shower charging on road trips?
  - ChrisIsTaken 6y ago
    Shower charging. The bolt fast charges at 50kW up to about 40%, then gradually drops to 35kW at 55% charge state. After that the charge rate drops off horrifically, to less than 10kW above 80%. It's a compliance car designed for city driving only.