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I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt. “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry
by perardi 6y ago
I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt.
“You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry into the EV market.”
- acct776 6y agoThey were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures in.
- perardi 6y agoYeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)
- cmrdporcupine 6y agoCompanies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and lifespans seriously. GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not producing compliance cars. Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders, and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned to do better than the others once those obstacles are surmounted. The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I love, but the tech in it is excellent.
- somerandomqaguy 6y agoGM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit sold other then for compliance. [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-money-off-electric-cars-until-next-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-mon...
- evgen 6y ago> GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. Tesla consistently has a larger loss per vehicle, and unlike GM there is no actual profit center to compensate if the government subsidies happen to dry up.
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y agoTesla's been able to improve to the point where they are still profitable without emissions credit sales. https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3d22dce9-36a8-46b9-b208-64c92e308a56/S1dbei4/WEB/TSLA-Q3-2020-Update https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3... They could cut the $330 million in R&D costs too, but i don't think they should given their niche.
- xxpor 6y agoThat's amazing concidering how crappy the bolt I test drove 6 months ago was. It was like they took their cheapest subcompact, threw some batteries and motors in it, and started charging $40k for a car that if it were gas would be maybe $20k at best.
- refurb 6y agoIs it that amazing? GM has been squeezing efficiency out of thier ICE production lines for close to 100 years. Suddenly switch to a new type of power train and combine that with small volumes and I’m not surprised in the least it crazy expensive.
- imglorp 6y ago> GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. Can they use the supercharger network? Or are they restricted to shower charging on road trips?
- ChrisIsTaken 6y agoShower charging. The bolt fast charges at 50kW up to about 40%, then gradually drops to 35kW at 55% charge state. After that the charge rate drops off horrifically, to less than 10kW above 80%. It's a compliance car designed for city driving only.
- CalChris 6y agoThe Nissan Leaf is a hatchback. The Tesla Model S is a hatchback. So is the Y. You might be right about real Amuricuns but the EV buying segment rather likes hatchbacks. With the exception of one SUV, which I did not like, every car I've ever owned since my first Honda Civic has been a hatchback.
- brians 6y agoMy model 3 has an enclosed trunk. Why would you call it a hatchback?
- CalChris 6y agoDoh, you're right. (Corrected) I have an S and the 3 isn't a hatchback (but the Y is). Need coffee. And indeed that was the reason I didn't get the 3 when it came out. The S is a little big for me but the 3 isn't a hatchback. I really like the Y though.
- perardi 6y agoOh, Americans actually like vehicles that happen to have a large hatch in the back, but they do not like cars that are shaped like hatchbacks. The Model S is shaped like a sports sedan. It does not look like a hatchback.
- CalChris 6y agoIt is however a hatchback. I dump my bike in the back as I have with every hatchback I've owned. You can even camp in the back. But if you prefer, you can call it a liftback.
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y agoI've been under the impression that hatchback versus lift back depends on the car's dimensions. A longer car with a shape closer to a conventional sedan would be a liftback and a shorter/boxier car with a shape closer to a traditional SUV would be a hatchback. But it is essentially the same.
- itsoktocry 6y ago>“You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks" Where on earth do you get his from? The top selling cars in the US are mostly SUVs and CUVs. In other words, hatchbacks.
- BoorishBears 6y agoAlthough technically this is a hatchback: https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/vg6LR/s1/2018-bmw-430i-gran-coupe-review.jpg https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/vg6LR/s1/2018-bmw-430i-gra... and this is a hatchback: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9e/76/9d/9e769dd145c21f6aaedfc447ab9adc7b.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9e/76/9d/9e769dd145c21f6aaedf... In casual speech most people are referring to two-box sub-compact/compact hatchbacks that look like this: https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14323/2020_Honda_Fit_1.jpg https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14323/2020... https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/38b2e6935d2caa4e96e963348fcbb385c228e98b/c=6-0-2994-1688/local/-/media/2017/05/28/USATODAY/USATODAY/636315278501076031-ChevroletCruzeHatch17.jpg https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/38b2e6935d2caa4e96e963348fc... https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14314/2020_Mitsubishi_Mirage_1.jpg https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14314/2020... Which are much more popular in Europe than the US. In the US they're often derided as "econoboxes"
- greesil 6y agoI love my Bolt. Inexpensive, smooth, carries kids, has a roof rack.
- tomcam 6y ago+1. I combine the two and carry my kids on the roof rack for additional cargo space.
- rootusrootus 6y agoAgreed, there's a lot to be said for it. I drive a Tesla Model 3 and my wife drives a Bolt, which means I get plenty of seat time in both. I wouldn't say the Tesla is definitively better. There are things I definitely prefer the Bolt for.
- PaulWaldman 6y agoCan you elaborate on the Bolt's advantages over a Model 3?
- rootusrootus 6y agoSure! - Lighter, more nimble -- super tight turning radius, tossable, easy to put anywhere you want in a tight parking lot, etc. Visibility in the Model 3 is great, but it's still a heavier, bigger car. - The Bolt has CarPlay. I can't get my Model 3 to reliably read me text messages, stream music (even getting it to recognize my playlists in Spotify was a huge chore). CarPlay is just so much easier to use. Love the big map screen on the Tesla screen, but I really wish they'd implement CarPlay. They definitely have the screen real estate to do it. - The Bolt distinguishes between forward regen and reverse. So when I back down my driveway, it works just like you expect a normal car to do it. In the Tesla I have to push the accelerator to get it to move downhill in reverse. Or else I use creep mode and then have to use the brake at every stoplight. The Bolt gives me both. And since you decide every time you put it in Drive, you can skip regen altogether, which is what my wife does. No going into a menu every time and changing it. - Cost. This is situational, of course. My Model 3 runs me close to a grand a month in depreciation alone. I paid 6 grand for a 36 month lease on the Bolt. - Wipers, of course. The Bolt has normal wiper controls. On the Model 3 I have to get used to them running at the highest speed for no reason, or turn them off and resign myself to holding down the stalk button when I need them. My model 3 is a performance model, so it's silly fast, but the Bolt isn't unpleasantly slow. The Bolt seats suck, but I feel the same about the Model 3 seats (my butt has grown accustomed to Recaros, I got spoiled). The OTA updates are more frequent on the Model 3, definitely, but at least the Bolt can get OTA updates as well. Hell, my F250 can at this point, but Tesla is much more frequently tweaking things.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoAll of the crossover "SUV"s are hatchbacks. Americans love them.