5 ms·

Computer System Engineering

323 points by hackitup7 6y ago

cmroanirgo 6y ago
This seems a lot different than the degree I did in Oz back in the 90's, which was a 6 year course (every 6 months was mandatory work experience): Computer Systems Engineering @UTS. Their current equivalent is this sub major: https://handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj03034.html https://handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj03034.html Interesting is how different the two courses are. I learnt a bunch of hardware design and build (cpu, embedded, electronics) as well as software design and build.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  Looks like your course focused on real-time and embedded systems, but used the same name. MIT's course is focusing more on general-purpose servers. I expect MIT also teaches RT/Embedded also but probably calls it something along those lines. Both skillsets are necessary, and IMHO not enough programmers are exposed to real-time systems in school. It's a very different style of coding and all modern desktop systems would work better if their designers had a better understanding of real-time principles.
AlchemistCamp 6y ago
I've been an enthusiastic follower of MOOCs since 2013 and it's amazing to me that there still isn't a better option than OCW for a serious, long-term learner. Coursera and edX each had some great courses at their peak but the vast majority were lower-level, they came from a wide variety of institutions and most were time-restricted. As a result, even for subjects like mathematics or computer science there just wasn't a path for an ambitious learner to piece together the full material from a bachelor's degree. These days, even automated graders are behind the paywall and the promise of an education for all is more distant than ever. OCW is truly an invaluable resource worth supporting and sharing!
- liaukovv 6y ago
  Some courses can be of amazing quality, like 6.824
  - maurys 6y ago
    This course (at least the videos) are on YouTube for the latest iteration. I found the YouTube interface a bit more familiar for sampling the course. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrw6a1wE39_tb2fErI4-WkMbsvGQk9_UB https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrw6a1wE39_tb2fErI4-WkMbs...
- ghaff 6y ago
  Especially if you're willing/able to pay some money there's still a lot on edX etc., both individual courses and the various MicroMasters programs. But, yes, totally free content is somewhat limited at this point and, generally, MOOCs have to be seen as a disappointment to anyone who saw them as a radical free substitute for a university education. Perhaps interestingly, when OCW launched, MIT presented it as very much not a substitute for an MIT education but rather as raw materials for educators to assemble their own courses. Which I'm sure was at least in part a matter of internal politics but still. (And, of course, ubiquitous video of lectures wasn't a thing at the time anyway.)
  - liaukovv 6y ago
    Many if not most MOOCs certainly lack depth, maybe the problem is in M part? Sometimes they feel like an ad
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Many of them are fairly faithful representations of the lecture components of courses from "elite" universities. There are certainly many MOOC courses I would struggle with. But, discussion boards are mostly a tire fire (in part, because of the M part as you suggest), problem sets/assignments are limited even if they're not behind a paywall, there are no recitation sessions, etc. So even if someone is motivated, which can be hard in the absence of meaningful certifications, they're just more limited than taking an actual university course.
andai 6y ago
There are two other versions of the course[0][1], from 2005 and 2009. This 2018 version seems to be the only one without video lectures. Actually, looks like both versions are using the 2005 videos (but with different UI: one embeds, one links to YouTube). [0]: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/56581/6-033Spring-2005/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-033Spring-2005/LectureNoteswithVideo/index.htm https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/56581/6-033Sp... [1]: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118791/6-033-spring-2009/contents/video-lectures/index.htm https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118791/6-033-...
- edge17 6y ago
  They both seem to be missing Lectures 1,2, and 3. Not sure if that is intended, but it's a strange coincidence if it's not intended.
  - liaukovv 6y ago
    Secret knowledge?
    - gregorygoc 6y ago
      Probably some copyright issues.
      - liaukovv 6y ago
        Ah dark magic beyond human understanding
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
brians 6y ago
This is the class that made my career. The idea that humanities sorts of skills – critical reading, analysis, discussion — could contribute to the work of systems engineering was a revelation. That I had the knack for it, and that it turns out to be the core work of engineering, I found later. The THERAC paper, the X11 paper, the Kerberos sequence—still resonate 22 years later. But the big lesson wasn’t in any of the papers, but in the structure as it communicated that engineering was not a solitary enterprise.
ijidak 6y ago
This was the most impactful class I took at MIT. Of every class I took, the lessons from this class have helped me the most in the real world. Algorithms, though heavily covered in lame interview tests, pale in significance to the benefit of understanding how to architect systems at a high-level. And a knowledge of how existing computer infrastructure and platforms are architect-ed (DNS, Ethernet, etc.) provides a deep pool of successful, tested concepts for whatever new system is being built. Highly recommend completing this course via OCW if you want to improve as an engineer.
- bob1029 6y ago
  I have recently found a strong renewed interest in the power of algorithms. Thinking about all of the sciences, computer science is still very much on the leading edge. There seems to be a lot of area left to explore with regard to applying algorithms correctly and devising entirely new ones. For instance, the splay tree is arguably one of the more incredible data structures in all of computer science, and we didn't discover it until 1985. Think about all the undiscovered applications that may exist out there regarding such an algorithm. Contrast with how long mathematicians have had to play around with the ideas of Newton, et. al. Another fun data structure is the skip list. This is probably the simplest probabilistic data structure you could hope to invent, and we didn't figure it out until 1989. 4 years after the splay tree. To me, this says "keep looking".
  - bmitc 6y ago
    > Thinking about all of the sciences, computer science is still very much on the leading edge. What do you mean by this?
    - deacon89 6y ago
      He means there's a lot of low hanging fruit left.
      - cambalache 6y ago
        There is as much "low hanging fruit" left as in mathematics, economics,control theory,analytical chemistry and so on. Like the proverbial "100 dollar bill in the sidewalk" joke, any truly impactful, low-hanging fruit would have been taken eons ago. PhD dissertations, postdoc applications and tenure case presentations would love to use them.
mavelikara 6y ago
Ever so often these courses, without video lectures, from prestigious universities come up here and gets upvoted to the front page. There will be some discussion by people who attended these courses in those universities. What is the point of posting and upvoting these course pages here? The most charitable answer I can find is that it informs that there exists such a body of knowledge. The uncharitable one is that it lets people gloat about their alma maters here in the comments. Any other explanations, anyone?
- krastanov 6y ago
  I personally avoid video lectures and prefer the written materials. I get that video works better for some people, but I do not understand how this can be the case: non interactive video is so much worse than text and diagrams.
  - liaukovv 6y ago
    Verbal communication contains a lot of information about relative importance of information
    - kortilla 6y ago
      Unless you’re implying the way certain phrases are being spoken carries that information, text easily conveys relative importance as well.
lutzke 6y ago
This looks very interesting. What are (or could be) some prerequisites to taking this course?

323 points by hackitup7 6y ago

This seems a lot different than the degree I did in Oz back in the 90's, which was a 6 year course (every 6 months was mandatory work experience): Computer Systems Engineering @UTS. Their current equivalent is this sub major: https://handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj03034.html https://handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj03034.html Interesting is how different the two courses are. I learnt a bunch of hardware design and build (cpu, embedded, electronics) as well as software design and build.

dreamcompiler 6y ago
Looks like your course focused on real-time and embedded systems, but used the same name. MIT's course is focusing more on general-purpose servers. I expect MIT also teaches RT/Embedded also but probably calls it something along those lines. Both skillsets are necessary, and IMHO not enough programmers are exposed to real-time systems in school. It's a very different style of coding and all modern desktop systems would work better if their designers had a better understanding of real-time principles.

AlchemistCamp 6y ago

I've been an enthusiastic follower of MOOCs since 2013 and it's amazing to me that there still isn't a better option than OCW for a serious, long-term learner. Coursera and edX each had some great courses at their peak but the vast majority were lower-level, they came from a wide variety of institutions and most were time-restricted. As a result, even for subjects like mathematics or computer science there just wasn't a path for an ambitious learner to piece together the full material from a bachelor's degree. These days, even automated graders are behind the paywall and the promise of an education for all is more distant than ever. OCW is truly an invaluable resource worth supporting and sharing!

liaukovv 6y ago
Some courses can be of amazing quality, like 6.824
- maurys 6y ago
  This course (at least the videos) are on YouTube for the latest iteration. I found the YouTube interface a bit more familiar for sampling the course. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrw6a1wE39_tb2fErI4-WkMbsvGQk9_UB https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrw6a1wE39_tb2fErI4-WkMbs...
ghaff 6y ago
Especially if you're willing/able to pay some money there's still a lot on edX etc., both individual courses and the various MicroMasters programs. But, yes, totally free content is somewhat limited at this point and, generally, MOOCs have to be seen as a disappointment to anyone who saw them as a radical free substitute for a university education. Perhaps interestingly, when OCW launched, MIT presented it as very much not a substitute for an MIT education but rather as raw materials for educators to assemble their own courses. Which I'm sure was at least in part a matter of internal politics but still. (And, of course, ubiquitous video of lectures wasn't a thing at the time anyway.)
- liaukovv 6y ago
  Many if not most MOOCs certainly lack depth, maybe the problem is in M part? Sometimes they feel like an ad
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Many of them are fairly faithful representations of the lecture components of courses from "elite" universities. There are certainly many MOOC courses I would struggle with. But, discussion boards are mostly a tire fire (in part, because of the M part as you suggest), problem sets/assignments are limited even if they're not behind a paywall, there are no recitation sessions, etc. So even if someone is motivated, which can be hard in the absence of meaningful certifications, they're just more limited than taking an actual university course.

andai 6y ago

There are two other versions of the course[0][1], from 2005 and 2009. This 2018 version seems to be the only one without video lectures. Actually, looks like both versions are using the 2005 videos (but with different UI: one embeds, one links to YouTube). [0]: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/56581/6-033Spring-2005/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-033Spring-2005/LectureNoteswithVideo/index.htm https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/56581/6-033Sp... [1]: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118791/6-033-spring-2009/contents/video-lectures/index.htm https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118791/6-033-...

edge17 6y ago
They both seem to be missing Lectures 1,2, and 3. Not sure if that is intended, but it's a strange coincidence if it's not intended.
- liaukovv 6y ago
  Secret knowledge?
  - gregorygoc 6y ago
    Probably some copyright issues.
    - liaukovv 6y ago
      Ah dark magic beyond human understanding
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

brians 6y ago

This is the class that made my career. The idea that humanities sorts of skills – critical reading, analysis, discussion — could contribute to the work of systems engineering was a revelation. That I had the knack for it, and that it turns out to be the core work of engineering, I found later. The THERAC paper, the X11 paper, the Kerberos sequence—still resonate 22 years later. But the big lesson wasn’t in any of the papers, but in the structure as it communicated that engineering was not a solitary enterprise.

ijidak 6y ago

This was the most impactful class I took at MIT. Of every class I took, the lessons from this class have helped me the most in the real world. Algorithms, though heavily covered in lame interview tests, pale in significance to the benefit of understanding how to architect systems at a high-level. And a knowledge of how existing computer infrastructure and platforms are architect-ed (DNS, Ethernet, etc.) provides a deep pool of successful, tested concepts for whatever new system is being built. Highly recommend completing this course via OCW if you want to improve as an engineer.

bob1029 6y ago
I have recently found a strong renewed interest in the power of algorithms. Thinking about all of the sciences, computer science is still very much on the leading edge. There seems to be a lot of area left to explore with regard to applying algorithms correctly and devising entirely new ones. For instance, the splay tree is arguably one of the more incredible data structures in all of computer science, and we didn't discover it until 1985. Think about all the undiscovered applications that may exist out there regarding such an algorithm. Contrast with how long mathematicians have had to play around with the ideas of Newton, et. al. Another fun data structure is the skip list. This is probably the simplest probabilistic data structure you could hope to invent, and we didn't figure it out until 1989. 4 years after the splay tree. To me, this says "keep looking".
- bmitc 6y ago
  > Thinking about all of the sciences, computer science is still very much on the leading edge. What do you mean by this?
  - deacon89 6y ago
    He means there's a lot of low hanging fruit left.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      There is as much "low hanging fruit" left as in mathematics, economics,control theory,analytical chemistry and so on. Like the proverbial "100 dollar bill in the sidewalk" joke, any truly impactful, low-hanging fruit would have been taken eons ago. PhD dissertations, postdoc applications and tenure case presentations would love to use them.

mavelikara 6y ago

Ever so often these courses, without video lectures, from prestigious universities come up here and gets upvoted to the front page. There will be some discussion by people who attended these courses in those universities. What is the point of posting and upvoting these course pages here? The most charitable answer I can find is that it informs that there exists such a body of knowledge. The uncharitable one is that it lets people gloat about their alma maters here in the comments. Any other explanations, anyone?

krastanov 6y ago
I personally avoid video lectures and prefer the written materials. I get that video works better for some people, but I do not understand how this can be the case: non interactive video is so much worse than text and diagrams.
- liaukovv 6y ago
  Verbal communication contains a lot of information about relative importance of information
  - kortilla 6y ago
    Unless you’re implying the way certain phrases are being spoken carries that information, text easily conveys relative importance as well.

lutzke 6y ago

This looks very interesting. What are (or could be) some prerequisites to taking this course?