10 ms·

The thing that always gets me is that "idea guys" seem to assume that "developers" can't get ideas, like it's a skill that only a select few can possess. Guess

The thing that always gets me is that "idea guys" seem to assume that "developers" can't get ideas, like it's a skill that only a select few can possess. Guess what? Everyone has ideas, and being a developer is great because we can actually build our ideas.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
turoczy 15y ago
The thing I never get is this… If the idea is so amazing, then you should be able to find funding to hire incredible developers to build it. If it's not that amazing, but you're convinced you're creative, then use that creativity to find the developers you need. "Idea guy seeking developer" usually means "I think I have a get rich quick scheme."
- drzaiusapelord 15y ago
  Excellent point. I'd also add that most good ideas are hard to recognize. Imagine trying to sell dropbox "Yeah, its like free backups meets FTP. Not sure how we're going to make money" or Facebook "Its the new myspace/friendster!" A lot of the success is in things like marketing, good UIs, implementation, beating the competition in features, strong partnerships with other companies, creative new solutions, good policies, and lots of luck. The idea guy can't help you with any of that. The devil is in the details, not in the big idea. Most "big ideas" are plain to see, its some kind of technical or creative specialization that helps you rise past your competitors.
sidmitra 15y ago
The idea guy has its own place in the market. It is the reason why there're so many consulting firms in the first place(including mine)! Some people genuinely believe in their ideas, enough to pay someone else to do it(not in equity ofcourse). And those are usually the people whose ideas work out in the end.
- Raphael_Amiard 15y ago
  > And those are usually the people whose ideas work out in the end. I got the impression that in the tech world, those who succeed were those who did learn how to realize their ideas by themselves, or at least have an idea about how to realize them. But then, i may be biased.
  - sidmitra 15y ago
    >realize their ideas by themselves Agreed. But "realize" could mean developing it themselves, or finding another way. Here i was assuming the idea guy can't code himself out of a hole, and realizes that shortcoming.
- nhangen 15y ago
  That's what I've been doing, and though I'm still very unhappy with developer churn, being able to hire and fire at will is convenient. It's just very hard to find someone that doesn't have a project mentality and is prepared to do great work.
spencerfry 15y ago
Ideas are easy, yes, but executing on ideas is difficult. Very difficult. Often developers need to spend their time working on production and don't have the time to follow through with the other aspects of the business. That's why founding teams do the best and often those successful founding teams are made up of one "idea guy" to see the vision through.
- 9ec4c12949a4f3 15y ago
  Because people stare out a window going "come on inspiration!" Look for a problem. If you don't know how to look for problems, that's a problem. Solve problems. Every single last "great idea" has solved a problem. My trips to france takes too long, lets invent something faster. My bacon gets all greasy when I microwave it, lets invent a rack to put it on. My MP3 player is confusing and weird, lets make a simple one. How do we make a simple one? Lets make something based around what people find simple. Etc.
raganwald 15y ago
If I may be the lone dissenter... Could it be that there are many business people, some of who have ideas but no ability to execute, some of who can execute but have no ideas, and a very few who have ideas and can execute on them? And like wise could it be that there are many developers, some of whom have ideas but cannot build their dreams, some of whom can build but have no ideas, and a very select few that have ideas and can build them? If these two suppositions are correct, then there are some pairings of business person and developer that can work, including a rare business person who has an idea and can execute on the idea, and who needs a developer who can build but doesn't have an idea? Of course there's some symmetry here, there are going to be developers with ideas and who can build. They will be looking for business people who don't have an idea of their own but who can execute.
- Travis 15y ago
  I don't disagree with your statements -- their is definitely a spectrum of each type of cofounder. However, out of the spectrum of idea guys, one signal I look for is their desire to pursue their idea. One great way to do that -- teach themselves to code. It doesn't mean that their ideas aren't any good. But at a glance, if someone has an idea that they believe in enough to teach themselves basic skils... well, then they become more than just an idea guy. Someone who is unwilling to teach themselves basic programming has no business in a web startup.
  - raganwald 15y ago
    +1! When discussions about interviewing and hiring come up, I always like to remember that these things are strategies, and false negatives are simply a cost of doing business. While I'm sure we can find of some great businesspeople with good ideas who didn't teach themselves some simple programming, a strategy of only working with those who did is probably still an excellent filter that will get rid of far more false positives than trip over false engatives.
  - truthseeker 15y ago
    Absolutely correct. As a developer, I am willing to work with idea guys as long as they can show their previous work. Success or failure, it doesn't matter as long as they hustled enough to get something done. Just like I am willing to show my technical skills with a portfolio, projects etc.
9ec4c12949a4f3 15y ago
Dude, I had the idea on the weekend to make slippers with Sigmund Freud's head on them. We'd call them freudian slippers. Now, go make some slippers and pay me for this idea.
zeemonkee 15y ago
A "business person" may be a domain expert in a vertical market. They may have an idea that requires an insight that only comes from years of working inside an industry that a developer, unless they have also worked in that industry, will simply not have. Furthermore the "business person" will be able to network in that industry.
- btilly 15y ago
  I've seen this happen. I've seen people claim that this will happen. Based on what I've seen, the odds that the claim is accurate in any particular case are very low.
- jerf 15y ago
  I think this is the black swan of the unsolicited ideas. Do they exist? Sure. I'm sure there's at least one out there. But it's not a case that everyone who wants to talk about swans has to spend a lot of time accounting for. Usually the unsolicited idea is "Clone $BIG_NAME_SERVICE for $500" with an optional rider of "specialized in a fully, profoundly unspecified manner for some set of people".
- drzaiusapelord 15y ago
  Except "business person" has no idea how to market applications, what works with online marketing, and how to effectively communicate what the application does. Let alone how to sell apps commercially to skeptical deep pocketed IT buyers who ask questions regarding such "arcane" things like HIPPA or SOX or assurance or compatibility with large enterprise solutions. His big contacts file is useless because his domain is in selling real estate not selling real estate apps.
  - zeemonkee 15y ago
    Generally I've found domain experts to have a healthy respect for other professions, including developers. I'm not talking about the caricature Craigslist mouth-breather with the awesome let's-clone-Facebook-for-$200 idea. Sure, the real estate seller may not know about apps, but they do know what works and what doesn't work in the real estate market, what the potential legal issues may be, and where the pain points are. I've never worked in real estate, so I don't. I suspect that's why so many pure-developer run startups are either things that only interest other developers (project management tools and the like) or things that "everybody" knows about, e.g. yet another Twitter client or social networking thingamajig. There's a ton of cash in vertical markets we don't touch because we don't know the right people in those industries to partner with. The successful businesses I've worked in(startups that went on to achieve success, or already successful small to medium sized businesses) have all been in vertical markets - from forestry to tourism to retail marketing. You couldn't have built these on developer savvy alone. That may go against the HN philosophy that software developers are the be all and end all of startups, but the reality is that most successful businesses need teams of people of different backgrounds.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
tacoe 15y ago
"...seem to assume..." is an assumption in itself. You're describing people that don't believe others can get ideas. That's not describing idea guys -- that's describing asshats. If you can't tell asshats from good idea guys, you've got a problem.
lhnz 15y ago
Actually, I know a heck of a lot of developers who don't have very many ideas. They come into work, do what they are told to do and then go back home to watch TV...
- wtracy 15y ago
  ... and these idea people have automatically weeded those developers out by looking for people on GitHub. Maybe they need to be looking somewhere else?
  - lhnz 15y ago
    That's actually a good point. Certainly don't look for programmers who already enjoy coding their own ideas, look for programmers that are solely motivated by money and couldn't care less about your idea.
Tichy 15y ago
If you have such great ideas, then why aren't you rich? (Assuming only poor developers get approached by idea guys)
sdizdar 15y ago
Isn't idea guy actually domain expert which understand certain problem in a area like nobody else? She or he could be a medial doctor, maybe veterinarian, maybe small business owner, maybe cook, etc. Idea guy does not necessary need to be business guy which means that idea guy might be also a geek - and matching two geeks from different field is a big challenge.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

turoczy 15y ago

The thing I never get is this… If the idea is so amazing, then you should be able to find funding to hire incredible developers to build it. If it's not that amazing, but you're convinced you're creative, then use that creativity to find the developers you need. "Idea guy seeking developer" usually means "I think I have a get rich quick scheme."

drzaiusapelord 15y ago
Excellent point. I'd also add that most good ideas are hard to recognize. Imagine trying to sell dropbox "Yeah, its like free backups meets FTP. Not sure how we're going to make money" or Facebook "Its the new myspace/friendster!" A lot of the success is in things like marketing, good UIs, implementation, beating the competition in features, strong partnerships with other companies, creative new solutions, good policies, and lots of luck. The idea guy can't help you with any of that. The devil is in the details, not in the big idea. Most "big ideas" are plain to see, its some kind of technical or creative specialization that helps you rise past your competitors.

sidmitra 15y ago

The idea guy has its own place in the market. It is the reason why there're so many consulting firms in the first place(including mine)! Some people genuinely believe in their ideas, enough to pay someone else to do it(not in equity ofcourse). And those are usually the people whose ideas work out in the end.

Raphael_Amiard 15y ago
> And those are usually the people whose ideas work out in the end. I got the impression that in the tech world, those who succeed were those who did learn how to realize their ideas by themselves, or at least have an idea about how to realize them. But then, i may be biased.
- sidmitra 15y ago
  >realize their ideas by themselves Agreed. But "realize" could mean developing it themselves, or finding another way. Here i was assuming the idea guy can't code himself out of a hole, and realizes that shortcoming.
nhangen 15y ago
That's what I've been doing, and though I'm still very unhappy with developer churn, being able to hire and fire at will is convenient. It's just very hard to find someone that doesn't have a project mentality and is prepared to do great work.

spencerfry 15y ago

Ideas are easy, yes, but executing on ideas is difficult. Very difficult. Often developers need to spend their time working on production and don't have the time to follow through with the other aspects of the business. That's why founding teams do the best and often those successful founding teams are made up of one "idea guy" to see the vision through.

9ec4c12949a4f3 15y ago
Because people stare out a window going "come on inspiration!" Look for a problem. If you don't know how to look for problems, that's a problem. Solve problems. Every single last "great idea" has solved a problem. My trips to france takes too long, lets invent something faster. My bacon gets all greasy when I microwave it, lets invent a rack to put it on. My MP3 player is confusing and weird, lets make a simple one. How do we make a simple one? Lets make something based around what people find simple. Etc.

raganwald 15y ago

If I may be the lone dissenter... Could it be that there are many business people, some of who have ideas but no ability to execute, some of who can execute but have no ideas, and a very few who have ideas and can execute on them? And like wise could it be that there are many developers, some of whom have ideas but cannot build their dreams, some of whom can build but have no ideas, and a very select few that have ideas and can build them? If these two suppositions are correct, then there are some pairings of business person and developer that can work, including a rare business person who has an idea and can execute on the idea, and who needs a developer who can build but doesn't have an idea? Of course there's some symmetry here, there are going to be developers with ideas and who can build. They will be looking for business people who don't have an idea of their own but who can execute.

Travis 15y ago
I don't disagree with your statements -- their is definitely a spectrum of each type of cofounder. However, out of the spectrum of idea guys, one signal I look for is their desire to pursue their idea. One great way to do that -- teach themselves to code. It doesn't mean that their ideas aren't any good. But at a glance, if someone has an idea that they believe in enough to teach themselves basic skils... well, then they become more than just an idea guy. Someone who is unwilling to teach themselves basic programming has no business in a web startup.
- raganwald 15y ago
  +1! When discussions about interviewing and hiring come up, I always like to remember that these things are strategies, and false negatives are simply a cost of doing business. While I'm sure we can find of some great businesspeople with good ideas who didn't teach themselves some simple programming, a strategy of only working with those who did is probably still an excellent filter that will get rid of far more false positives than trip over false engatives.
- truthseeker 15y ago
  Absolutely correct. As a developer, I am willing to work with idea guys as long as they can show their previous work. Success or failure, it doesn't matter as long as they hustled enough to get something done. Just like I am willing to show my technical skills with a portfolio, projects etc.

9ec4c12949a4f3 15y ago

Dude, I had the idea on the weekend to make slippers with Sigmund Freud's head on them. We'd call them freudian slippers. Now, go make some slippers and pay me for this idea.

zeemonkee 15y ago

A "business person" may be a domain expert in a vertical market. They may have an idea that requires an insight that only comes from years of working inside an industry that a developer, unless they have also worked in that industry, will simply not have. Furthermore the "business person" will be able to network in that industry.

btilly 15y ago
I've seen this happen. I've seen people claim that this will happen. Based on what I've seen, the odds that the claim is accurate in any particular case are very low.
jerf 15y ago
I think this is the black swan of the unsolicited ideas. Do they exist? Sure. I'm sure there's at least one out there. But it's not a case that everyone who wants to talk about swans has to spend a lot of time accounting for. Usually the unsolicited idea is "Clone $BIG_NAME_SERVICE for $500" with an optional rider of "specialized in a fully, profoundly unspecified manner for some set of people".
drzaiusapelord 15y ago
Except "business person" has no idea how to market applications, what works with online marketing, and how to effectively communicate what the application does. Let alone how to sell apps commercially to skeptical deep pocketed IT buyers who ask questions regarding such "arcane" things like HIPPA or SOX or assurance or compatibility with large enterprise solutions. His big contacts file is useless because his domain is in selling real estate not selling real estate apps.
- zeemonkee 15y ago
  Generally I've found domain experts to have a healthy respect for other professions, including developers. I'm not talking about the caricature Craigslist mouth-breather with the awesome let's-clone-Facebook-for-$200 idea. Sure, the real estate seller may not know about apps, but they do know what works and what doesn't work in the real estate market, what the potential legal issues may be, and where the pain points are. I've never worked in real estate, so I don't. I suspect that's why so many pure-developer run startups are either things that only interest other developers (project management tools and the like) or things that "everybody" knows about, e.g. yet another Twitter client or social networking thingamajig. There's a ton of cash in vertical markets we don't touch because we don't know the right people in those industries to partner with. The successful businesses I've worked in(startups that went on to achieve success, or already successful small to medium sized businesses) have all been in vertical markets - from forestry to tourism to retail marketing. You couldn't have built these on developer savvy alone. That may go against the HN philosophy that software developers are the be all and end all of startups, but the reality is that most successful businesses need teams of people of different backgrounds.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

tacoe 15y ago

"...seem to assume..." is an assumption in itself. You're describing people that don't believe others can get ideas. That's not describing idea guys -- that's describing asshats. If you can't tell asshats from good idea guys, you've got a problem.

lhnz 15y ago

Actually, I know a heck of a lot of developers who don't have very many ideas. They come into work, do what they are told to do and then go back home to watch TV...

wtracy 15y ago
... and these idea people have automatically weeded those developers out by looking for people on GitHub. Maybe they need to be looking somewhere else?
- lhnz 15y ago
  That's actually a good point. Certainly don't look for programmers who already enjoy coding their own ideas, look for programmers that are solely motivated by money and couldn't care less about your idea.

Tichy 15y ago

If you have such great ideas, then why aren't you rich? (Assuming only poor developers get approached by idea guys)

sdizdar 15y ago

Isn't idea guy actually domain expert which understand certain problem in a area like nobody else? She or he could be a medial doctor, maybe veterinarian, maybe small business owner, maybe cook, etc. Idea guy does not necessary need to be business guy which means that idea guy might be also a geek - and matching two geeks from different field is a big challenge.