3 ms·

> All the front end devs are like, "You have to wait how many minutes for compile times?" for instance. This is a shocking argument coming from any front end d

> All the front end devs are like, "You have to wait how many minutes for compile times?" for instance. This is a shocking argument coming from any front end dev. Since when is static type checking, working on serious big repositories that take time to compile, have proper architecture with hundreds if not thousands of programmers working on it comparable to 3 frontend folks working on a web application? There is so much wrong with this argument and haven't scratched the surface.

ricardobeat 6y ago
That's an odd comment to make, you just inadvertently proved their point. Most large web products are serious (?), have 'proper architecture' and hundreds of frontend developers working on them. Google products, Spotify, AirBnB, JIRA/Atlassian, Booking.com, Trello, GitHub.. you name it. You may also notice TypeScript in the first paragraph of the report, which is a type checker and has been enjoying massive adoption.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Not 'his', 'their', but yes, I agree that the projects being done on the web are hugely complex these days and have a rich set of building, linting, releasing, testing, etc. tools.
  - ricardobeat 6y ago
    corrected, thanks.
Pfhreak 6y ago
I think you have a fairly dated understanding of what front end is, it's scale, and the complexity of delivering an experience that's fast and well optimized. These days front end engineering can be every bit as rigorous and complex as back end engineering. The constraints are a bit different, and the environments are very different, but the scale and complexity of engineering is not.
- Frost1x 6y ago
  I believe you might have a slightly biased view of what front-end development largely looks like. What you're describing is the type of front-end development that goes on at the organizations that actually develop these frameworks. The vast majority of front-end development outside of that world is misguidedly trying to mimic that complexity on their static business informational page they maintain with a duct taped mess of bad practices everywhere. Now if you take a look at development outside of front-end and go to some large non-tech, mid-sized, or small business you'll probably also find poor practices (from my experience), but nothing like the mess I see in these same organizations trying front-end development now.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    If someone is making a static business informational page, it’s significantly more likely that they’re using WordPress and jQuery than e.g. React [1]. Like, significantly significantly — 20x more likely to be using jQuery (which is on a full 83% of all webpages) than React, and 30x more likely to be using WordPress than Gatsby or whatever. People on HN talk about React and friends because they’re building client-side apps that deserve full frameworks. But it’s absolutely not representative of most web development. [1] https://css-tricks.com/how-the-web-is-really-built/ https://css-tricks.com/how-the-web-is-really-built/
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Perhaps, I've only seen front end projects at FAANG and personal projects. That said, my front projects have at least an eslint config and usually a CI/CD deployment strategy if not full on tests.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  > I think you have a fairly dated understanding of what front end is Certainly, as I am finding out. Can you suggest some solid, robust frontend framework that doesn't break in 3 months when I update the dependencies?
  - Pfhreak 6y ago

ricardobeat 6y ago

That's an odd comment to make, you just inadvertently proved their point. Most large web products are serious (?), have 'proper architecture' and hundreds of frontend developers working on them. Google products, Spotify, AirBnB, JIRA/Atlassian, Booking.com, Trello, GitHub.. you name it. You may also notice TypeScript in the first paragraph of the report, which is a type checker and has been enjoying massive adoption.

Pfhreak 6y ago
Not 'his', 'their', but yes, I agree that the projects being done on the web are hugely complex these days and have a rich set of building, linting, releasing, testing, etc. tools.
- ricardobeat 6y ago
  corrected, thanks.

Pfhreak 6y ago

I think you have a fairly dated understanding of what front end is, it's scale, and the complexity of delivering an experience that's fast and well optimized. These days front end engineering can be every bit as rigorous and complex as back end engineering. The constraints are a bit different, and the environments are very different, but the scale and complexity of engineering is not.

Frost1x 6y ago
I believe you might have a slightly biased view of what front-end development largely looks like. What you're describing is the type of front-end development that goes on at the organizations that actually develop these frameworks. The vast majority of front-end development outside of that world is misguidedly trying to mimic that complexity on their static business informational page they maintain with a duct taped mess of bad practices everywhere. Now if you take a look at development outside of front-end and go to some large non-tech, mid-sized, or small business you'll probably also find poor practices (from my experience), but nothing like the mess I see in these same organizations trying front-end development now.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  If someone is making a static business informational page, it’s significantly more likely that they’re using WordPress and jQuery than e.g. React [1]. Like, significantly significantly — 20x more likely to be using jQuery (which is on a full 83% of all webpages) than React, and 30x more likely to be using WordPress than Gatsby or whatever. People on HN talk about React and friends because they’re building client-side apps that deserve full frameworks. But it’s absolutely not representative of most web development. [1] https://css-tricks.com/how-the-web-is-really-built/ https://css-tricks.com/how-the-web-is-really-built/
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Perhaps, I've only seen front end projects at FAANG and personal projects. That said, my front projects have at least an eslint config and usually a CI/CD deployment strategy if not full on tests.
systemvoltage 6y ago
> I think you have a fairly dated understanding of what front end is Certainly, as I am finding out. Can you suggest some solid, robust frontend framework that doesn't break in 3 months when I update the dependencies?
- Pfhreak 6y ago