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I worked at and organized a local grocery store in 2015 into the UFCW local. Workers there have six weeks of vacation after a year, much higher than average wag

I worked at and organized a local grocery store in 2015 into the UFCW local. Workers there have six weeks of vacation after a year, much higher than average wages and excellent health benefits. They also have a real shield from arbitrary discipline, which had been a rampant problem. Seeing all the anti-union propaganda makes me wonder how many people spreading it have ever been in a union. It seems like most of it is just buying into the ambient pro-business propaganda without direct experience.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
Positions on unions should not be absolute. There are many people who are these anti-establishment, universally pro-union types, as if they improve everything they touch and there are no downsides. The reality is that unions are a big tradeoff. For grocery workers and warehouse workers and other low skill positions, they tend to make sense. Labor laws are definitely a better way to handle things. Unions should also be a last resort. Folks need to stop assuming that their employer is oppressive and give them a chance to accommodate their grievances, and they should be reasonable in what they expect from an employer/employee relationship. The best possible outcome is having an employer who gives you what you want (within reason) without a union. Folks who make hundreds of K per year, get unlimited vacation, flexible working time, free gourmet meals, the best health benefits on the market have a lot less reason ti resort to such a blunt instrument than a factory worker in a one factory town. They should also be sincere in their evaluation of rebuttals. It’s import to build trust on both sides. Sometimes threats of a plant closure are bluffing as a negotiating tactic, but sometimes they aren’t. For what it’s worth, I have been a union member and many of my family members are in unions. I do not have good things to say about them at all, but it’s true that some places are even worse without them.
- kieselguhr_kid 6y ago
  I worked directly with them, so I have TONS of criticisms of unions. They're far from perfect and frankly weak in the US. There's room for improvement for sure. And there are downsides - you're committing to a permanently adversarial relationship with management. I'd argue that relationship often exists without workers even realizing it, but having now entered the world of highly-compensated professionals (and seeing that their management structures tend to be less authoritarian) I can see why people might shy away from that. But the difference a union contract made in my day-to-day life when I was a grocery worker was astounding. I didn't have to worry about retaliatory discipline. I had better wages, better healthcare and better vacation. And it built camaraderie among union members even if it damaged relationships with management. I'm proud of what we accomplished there.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

Positions on unions should not be absolute. There are many people who are these anti-establishment, universally pro-union types, as if they improve everything they touch and there are no downsides. The reality is that unions are a big tradeoff. For grocery workers and warehouse workers and other low skill positions, they tend to make sense. Labor laws are definitely a better way to handle things. Unions should also be a last resort. Folks need to stop assuming that their employer is oppressive and give them a chance to accommodate their grievances, and they should be reasonable in what they expect from an employer/employee relationship. The best possible outcome is having an employer who gives you what you want (within reason) without a union. Folks who make hundreds of K per year, get unlimited vacation, flexible working time, free gourmet meals, the best health benefits on the market have a lot less reason ti resort to such a blunt instrument than a factory worker in a one factory town. They should also be sincere in their evaluation of rebuttals. It’s import to build trust on both sides. Sometimes threats of a plant closure are bluffing as a negotiating tactic, but sometimes they aren’t. For what it’s worth, I have been a union member and many of my family members are in unions. I do not have good things to say about them at all, but it’s true that some places are even worse without them.

kieselguhr_kid 6y ago
I worked directly with them, so I have TONS of criticisms of unions. They're far from perfect and frankly weak in the US. There's room for improvement for sure. And there are downsides - you're committing to a permanently adversarial relationship with management. I'd argue that relationship often exists without workers even realizing it, but having now entered the world of highly-compensated professionals (and seeing that their management structures tend to be less authoritarian) I can see why people might shy away from that. But the difference a union contract made in my day-to-day life when I was a grocery worker was astounding. I didn't have to worry about retaliatory discipline. I had better wages, better healthcare and better vacation. And it built camaraderie among union members even if it damaged relationships with management. I'm proud of what we accomplished there.