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I have mixed feelings about this story. I applaud your resolve, and you have certainly had a tremendous amount of success that should be celebrated! But I can'

I have mixed feelings about this story. I applaud your resolve, and you have certainly had a tremendous amount of success that should be celebrated! But I can't help but think about the 9 founders of other companies that had the same resolve in the same situation, but things did not work out so well. All you other people thinking about going for broke need to be ready to hit bottom and build yourself back up afterwards, because 9 times out of 10 that's what will happen. Or, even better, first put yourself into a situation where you don't need to go for broke to give yourself an excellent chance at success. I think this is why a lot of crazy big startups come from younger people, they can afford to go for broke before they have a family and other obligations, because the worst that can happen is they are left with nothing, then they settle for a high-paying job at a big tech company and 2 months later they can afford a new car.

austinl 6y ago
I agree in the sense that the HN community cannot save a bad product. And sometimes it wouldn't even save a good product. But I think the thanks here is for the community that was willing to give a new product a try, provide feedback, and help the founders build momentum towards what it ultimately became — especially when it was clear there was no traction on other sites. I think that's something to be thankful for, and shows that HN can be different from other communities in meaningful ways.
TAForObvReasons 6y ago
*younger people with family wealth. Some of my friends were unable to take risks because they needed to support their parents as well, and that puts a huge pressure to go with the safe money
- Techonomicon 6y ago
  I love this comment. I don't think this notion gets highlighted enough. This is definitively anecdotal, though I've been at / through approximately 5 startups across 12 years, and looking back, I believe each end everyone one (except for one) was definitely helped / started by a founder or set of founders who didn't have to worry about whether they went belly up or not due to family wealth. Hell, I still know some that I've consulted for that have lived in the bay area for the past 8 years without a product that makes any money, no vc funding, and were just out of their masters 8 years ago. Clearly looking back, nearly every founder I've worked for came from a family with $$$. Even currently, at least one of my co-ceos just up and left their 2 million dollar menlo park house and went to live in their parents vacation home in monterey right when covid began. Taking risks becomes extremely easy when you have a large family wealth backed safety net propping you up along the way. This happens way more often than people realize, and often the founder(s) will definitely not talk about this at all / downplay it if it is brought up. The privilege is real.
  - notatrumper 6y ago
    Yes, having money is good. That's why many people strive to have money. I personally also don't think it is unfair if kids of rich parents inherit their money (or their support). After all, being able to take care of one's children is a major motivation of many people for trying to make money. It's also well known that money is an important factor in mate choice for women. Even without money, biology would be at work and people would be striving to find attractive mates to conceive "fit" children. You could then also say those "fit" children are "privileged" compared to "less fit" children. -- Anyway, as your own anecdotes highlight, if you are not rich, find another way, for example a rich person who gives you money.
    - Techonomicon 6y ago
      Don't think there was any weighing in on fairness going on as much as it not being acknowledged enough. I believe, from experience seeing it, many founders who succeed will quote literally everything but their background, upbringing, and privilege as a factor, even though the fact that they had little to worry about while building their empire with respect to you know, the things everyone else has to care about on a daily basis (bills, debt, what happens if I fail) is an extremely large factor. The barrier to entry of them taking a risk is so much lower that it is (in my opinion) directly correlated to their success at the end of the day. Anyway, that's all. Less about fairness, and more about wish this was really highlighted more.
      - notatrumper 6y ago
        My impression is that "privilege" has by now taken on that meaning of "unfairness". It seems to be the most common modern use ("check your privilege" and so on). It sounds as if those people don't deserve it. It's a shame, because I think it used to mean exactly the opposite, having a privilege was an honor. Is the phrase "it was a privilege to have known you" still being used?
        Techonomicon 6y ago
        You should recognize your privilege along with your strengths, and not overtly hide your privilege to appear on equal footing. I have intimate knowledge with writers, specifically offspring of well known writers who do their best to hide this fact, yet will still use their parents agent. And yes, it is unfair for them to believe they are on equal footing with any other writer. That doesn't mean they don't try hard, but they do have benefits built into their life that others don't. If you want to trailblaze without being perceived as someone of privilege getting there then you should take paths that align with that, and not ones that don't.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dvt 6y ago
> But I can't help but think about the 9 founders of other companies that had the same resolve in the same situation, but things did not work out so well. Everyone on HN knows that the startup life is, in many ways, a lottery. But that doesn't mean it's not still one of the most reliable ways of exercising self-determination, working on something you're truly passionate about, taking full responsibility for your fate, and becoming financially independent (if not outright wealthy). Which is why most of us do it. And, yeah, failing sucks, but saying "don't forget you'll most likely fail!" is just not particularly insightful in this kind of context. We already know that.
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  > still one of the most reliable ways of [...] becoming financially independent (if not outright wealthy) There's just no way this is true. For people with the skills needed by SV startups, working at one of the startups is almost certainly financially worse than using those skills at a large company.
  - dvt 6y ago
    I was specifically talking about founders (but even early stage engineers can do extremely well if the startup takes off). The upside is much higher doing your own thing rather than working at BigCorp (the two aren't even remotely comparable, but neither is the risk). Not to mention the end goals/QOL of working on what you want, commanding your own ship, being financially independent, etc. Virtually all self-made millionaires+ started companies[1]. There's really no other way to get there. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2019/10/02/self-starters-85-of-americas-richest-entrepreneurs-start-first-business-by-40/?sh=2f7703f55a9e https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2019/10/02/self-...
    - quickthrower2 6y ago
      You can also get to millions by investing while working a regular job
      - 6y ago
ATS22 6y ago
totally agree with you. young people don't have to worry about stuff like managing their money because they are backed up. it's a shame grown ups with families can't find this backup in the community. once more capitalism shows it's ugly side.
- jdminhbg 6y ago
  > it's a shame grown ups with families can't find this backup in the community. once more capitalism shows it's ugly side. OP had a three year old daughter with a life-threatening medical condition, so I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about.
PopeDotNinja 6y ago
Not only did I run out of money, I ended up homeless! TL;DR -- don't run out of money.
nojito 6y ago
>I think this is why a lot of crazy big startups come from younger people, they can afford to go for broke before they have a family and other obligations, because the worst that can happen is they are left with nothing, then they settle for a high-paying job at a big tech company and 2 months later they can afford a new car. This really isn't true. The average age of a successful entrepreneur is 45.
- capiki 6y ago
  That's a *successful* entrepreneur. OP was talking about any entrepreneur.
  - nojito 6y ago
    No... >I think this is why a lot of crazy big startups come from younger people, "crazy big startups"
blizkreeg 6y ago
What is it with every post on HN having an almost 50/50 split along the cynical line. Of course 9/10 founders are going to fail, some people have more privilege to take risks, and people with families have to take measured risks. What's the point? Should people not try, keep crying about it, keep complaining that it's easy to say this when you have privilege, keep looking at the negative side? We all recognize life's a lottery and the odds are stacked in favor of some and not others. So?
- dumbfounder 6y ago
  I am not cynical, I am a 3 time founder and looking to start another company. I am the opposite of cynical. It is simply cautionary advice. I think we have a tendency to glorify startup life and I think people should be grounded in reality when making massive decisions like this.
  - blizkreeg 6y ago
    There is also something called dealing with the consequences. People figure it out. It's not a joy ride, but it's not the end of the world. At least most people in tech have the skills to fall back on a career if their company fails. Needless caution advice coated in a cynical tone just creates negativity around the whole topic. Can't we just celebrate that the founder of Webflow managed to rescue his company from the brink of fail (even if it was dumb luck - it wasn't) and has built a life for himself? This is the stuff that inspires human beings and makes everyone feel like they could do it too. Clouding it in _oh but what if you're in the other 9 out of 10 camp_ is just you know .. pointless. It's fine to say, hey make yourself comfortable first, play small bets and free yourself from complete ruin before you go bet the farm, but, yolo so you do you. But no need to rain on the parade of the person who has crossed over to the other side.
    - rizpanjwani 6y ago
      so basically you're saying it's ok to create positivity around a topic on a regular basis, but not negativity, even though the negative consequences happen more often than not?
warent 6y ago
I think a large portion of entrepreneurs and founders don't do it because it's a get-rich-quick scheme or a normal path to retirement. It's because it's in their (our?) nature. My stakes are much, much smaller, so maybe this experience is very particular to me, but I'm fortunate to have bootstrapped a growing SaaS business that is now closing in on USD$2000 MRR. Before this, I have a trail of hair-brained failures. The sense of accomplishment hasn't changed with the (modest) business success. I've felt accomplished the first day I started trying and failing. This is just our nature. Seeing material success from it only icing on the cake.
munificent 6y ago
I agree with your point that we shouldn't idolize people who make very risky personal sacrifices without framing it in the truth that most who do fail. At the same time, I read this particular post as much less about "look how hard I hustled and because of that I'm a winner" and much more about gratitude towards the HN community and the appreciating the luck that enabled them to be one of the rare winners. It's more "even though we hustled we were still on track to lose until we got lucky and supported from others." I think that's an excellent sentiment to share.
- hn_grenade 6y ago
  Come on, sheep, don't idolize them at all, just go back to being cautious and in place, it's what you were born to do. Tell yourself that it was because they were given such and such a "privilege", or had such and such an easier thing, and you had a hard thing, and therefore it never could have ever been you, and therefore feel better at your own failed dreams. Or tell yourself that you are smart, and they are dumb and simply lucky, because most fail. Either way, find a way to spin it so you are right and they wrong, and definitely don't actually reflect on how you could get some of what they have, nor improve yourself in any way. Remind yourself instead why their success is not actually so good, or so special, and especially remember to tell yourself that it's not and it's never your fault if you don't succeed. Align with your true nature and surrender to the inevitability of your powerlessness. This is right, for you, oh sheep. This is your good path. Don't fall into the trap of hoping, or idolizing, or being inspired. Never dream. Remember to always be critical and find fault with another's success, in order to protect yourself. This is your way. Go forth and just be.
baby 6y ago
There’s actually no “going back up” or digging yourself of your own grave once you hit a large medical expense. Lots of people become homeless and bankrupt for life due to these issues. Personally, my plan is to go back to Europe if I want to launch an American startup because there is no way I would do this without a good health insurance and good social safety nets. Interestingly, we see much more startups in the US even though the downsides of creating your startup in the US are insane. I guess we are really optimistic individuals (or start up founders tend to be crazy individuals).
- cfontes 6y ago
  try funding a startup in europe and you will understand why.
  - dumbfounder 6y ago
    I hear about a lot of startups moving to Canada, the best of both worlds?

austinl 6y ago

I agree in the sense that the HN community cannot save a bad product. And sometimes it wouldn't even save a good product. But I think the thanks here is for the community that was willing to give a new product a try, provide feedback, and help the founders build momentum towards what it ultimately became — especially when it was clear there was no traction on other sites. I think that's something to be thankful for, and shows that HN can be different from other communities in meaningful ways.

TAForObvReasons 6y ago

*younger people with family wealth. Some of my friends were unable to take risks because they needed to support their parents as well, and that puts a huge pressure to go with the safe money

Techonomicon 6y ago
I love this comment. I don't think this notion gets highlighted enough. This is definitively anecdotal, though I've been at / through approximately 5 startups across 12 years, and looking back, I believe each end everyone one (except for one) was definitely helped / started by a founder or set of founders who didn't have to worry about whether they went belly up or not due to family wealth. Hell, I still know some that I've consulted for that have lived in the bay area for the past 8 years without a product that makes any money, no vc funding, and were just out of their masters 8 years ago. Clearly looking back, nearly every founder I've worked for came from a family with $$$. Even currently, at least one of my co-ceos just up and left their 2 million dollar menlo park house and went to live in their parents vacation home in monterey right when covid began. Taking risks becomes extremely easy when you have a large family wealth backed safety net propping you up along the way. This happens way more often than people realize, and often the founder(s) will definitely not talk about this at all / downplay it if it is brought up. The privilege is real.
- notatrumper 6y ago
  Yes, having money is good. That's why many people strive to have money. I personally also don't think it is unfair if kids of rich parents inherit their money (or their support). After all, being able to take care of one's children is a major motivation of many people for trying to make money. It's also well known that money is an important factor in mate choice for women. Even without money, biology would be at work and people would be striving to find attractive mates to conceive "fit" children. You could then also say those "fit" children are "privileged" compared to "less fit" children. -- Anyway, as your own anecdotes highlight, if you are not rich, find another way, for example a rich person who gives you money.
  - Techonomicon 6y ago
    Don't think there was any weighing in on fairness going on as much as it not being acknowledged enough. I believe, from experience seeing it, many founders who succeed will quote literally everything but their background, upbringing, and privilege as a factor, even though the fact that they had little to worry about while building their empire with respect to you know, the things everyone else has to care about on a daily basis (bills, debt, what happens if I fail) is an extremely large factor. The barrier to entry of them taking a risk is so much lower that it is (in my opinion) directly correlated to their success at the end of the day. Anyway, that's all. Less about fairness, and more about wish this was really highlighted more.
    - notatrumper 6y ago
      My impression is that "privilege" has by now taken on that meaning of "unfairness". It seems to be the most common modern use ("check your privilege" and so on). It sounds as if those people don't deserve it. It's a shame, because I think it used to mean exactly the opposite, having a privilege was an honor. Is the phrase "it was a privilege to have known you" still being used?
      - Techonomicon 6y ago
        You should recognize your privilege along with your strengths, and not overtly hide your privilege to appear on equal footing. I have intimate knowledge with writers, specifically offspring of well known writers who do their best to hide this fact, yet will still use their parents agent. And yes, it is unfair for them to believe they are on equal footing with any other writer. That doesn't mean they don't try hard, but they do have benefits built into their life that others don't. If you want to trailblaze without being perceived as someone of privilege getting there then you should take paths that align with that, and not ones that don't.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dvt 6y ago

> But I can't help but think about the 9 founders of other companies that had the same resolve in the same situation, but things did not work out so well. Everyone on HN knows that the startup life is, in many ways, a lottery. But that doesn't mean it's not still one of the most reliable ways of exercising self-determination, working on something you're truly passionate about, taking full responsibility for your fate, and becoming financially independent (if not outright wealthy). Which is why most of us do it. And, yeah, failing sucks, but saying "don't forget you'll most likely fail!" is just not particularly insightful in this kind of context. We already know that.

solidasparagus 6y ago
> still one of the most reliable ways of [...] becoming financially independent (if not outright wealthy) There's just no way this is true. For people with the skills needed by SV startups, working at one of the startups is almost certainly financially worse than using those skills at a large company.
- dvt 6y ago
  I was specifically talking about founders (but even early stage engineers can do extremely well if the startup takes off). The upside is much higher doing your own thing rather than working at BigCorp (the two aren't even remotely comparable, but neither is the risk). Not to mention the end goals/QOL of working on what you want, commanding your own ship, being financially independent, etc. Virtually all self-made millionaires+ started companies[1]. There's really no other way to get there. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2019/10/02/self-starters-85-of-americas-richest-entrepreneurs-start-first-business-by-40/?sh=2f7703f55a9e https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2019/10/02/self-...
  - quickthrower2 6y ago
    You can also get to millions by investing while working a regular job
    - 6y ago

ATS22 6y ago

totally agree with you. young people don't have to worry about stuff like managing their money because they are backed up. it's a shame grown ups with families can't find this backup in the community. once more capitalism shows it's ugly side.

jdminhbg 6y ago
> it's a shame grown ups with families can't find this backup in the community. once more capitalism shows it's ugly side. OP had a three year old daughter with a life-threatening medical condition, so I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about.

PopeDotNinja 6y ago

Not only did I run out of money, I ended up homeless! TL;DR -- don't run out of money.

nojito 6y ago

>I think this is why a lot of crazy big startups come from younger people, they can afford to go for broke before they have a family and other obligations, because the worst that can happen is they are left with nothing, then they settle for a high-paying job at a big tech company and 2 months later they can afford a new car. This really isn't true. The average age of a successful entrepreneur is 45.

capiki 6y ago
That's a *successful* entrepreneur. OP was talking about any entrepreneur.
- nojito 6y ago
  No... >I think this is why a lot of crazy big startups come from younger people, "crazy big startups"

blizkreeg 6y ago

What is it with every post on HN having an almost 50/50 split along the cynical line. Of course 9/10 founders are going to fail, some people have more privilege to take risks, and people with families have to take measured risks. What's the point? Should people not try, keep crying about it, keep complaining that it's easy to say this when you have privilege, keep looking at the negative side? We all recognize life's a lottery and the odds are stacked in favor of some and not others. So?

dumbfounder 6y ago
I am not cynical, I am a 3 time founder and looking to start another company. I am the opposite of cynical. It is simply cautionary advice. I think we have a tendency to glorify startup life and I think people should be grounded in reality when making massive decisions like this.
- blizkreeg 6y ago
  There is also something called dealing with the consequences. People figure it out. It's not a joy ride, but it's not the end of the world. At least most people in tech have the skills to fall back on a career if their company fails. Needless caution advice coated in a cynical tone just creates negativity around the whole topic. Can't we just celebrate that the founder of Webflow managed to rescue his company from the brink of fail (even if it was dumb luck - it wasn't) and has built a life for himself? This is the stuff that inspires human beings and makes everyone feel like they could do it too. Clouding it in _oh but what if you're in the other 9 out of 10 camp_ is just you know .. pointless. It's fine to say, hey make yourself comfortable first, play small bets and free yourself from complete ruin before you go bet the farm, but, yolo so you do you. But no need to rain on the parade of the person who has crossed over to the other side.
  - rizpanjwani 6y ago
    so basically you're saying it's ok to create positivity around a topic on a regular basis, but not negativity, even though the negative consequences happen more often than not?

warent 6y ago

I think a large portion of entrepreneurs and founders don't do it because it's a get-rich-quick scheme or a normal path to retirement. It's because it's in their (our?) nature. My stakes are much, much smaller, so maybe this experience is very particular to me, but I'm fortunate to have bootstrapped a growing SaaS business that is now closing in on USD$2000 MRR. Before this, I have a trail of hair-brained failures. The sense of accomplishment hasn't changed with the (modest) business success. I've felt accomplished the first day I started trying and failing. This is just our nature. Seeing material success from it only icing on the cake.

munificent 6y ago

I agree with your point that we shouldn't idolize people who make very risky personal sacrifices without framing it in the truth that most who do fail. At the same time, I read this particular post as much less about "look how hard I hustled and because of that I'm a winner" and much more about gratitude towards the HN community and the appreciating the luck that enabled them to be one of the rare winners. It's more "even though we hustled we were still on track to lose until we got lucky and supported from others." I think that's an excellent sentiment to share.

hn_grenade 6y ago
Come on, sheep, don't idolize them at all, just go back to being cautious and in place, it's what you were born to do. Tell yourself that it was because they were given such and such a "privilege", or had such and such an easier thing, and you had a hard thing, and therefore it never could have ever been you, and therefore feel better at your own failed dreams. Or tell yourself that you are smart, and they are dumb and simply lucky, because most fail. Either way, find a way to spin it so you are right and they wrong, and definitely don't actually reflect on how you could get some of what they have, nor improve yourself in any way. Remind yourself instead why their success is not actually so good, or so special, and especially remember to tell yourself that it's not and it's never your fault if you don't succeed. Align with your true nature and surrender to the inevitability of your powerlessness. This is right, for you, oh sheep. This is your good path. Don't fall into the trap of hoping, or idolizing, or being inspired. Never dream. Remember to always be critical and find fault with another's success, in order to protect yourself. This is your way. Go forth and just be.

baby 6y ago

There’s actually no “going back up” or digging yourself of your own grave once you hit a large medical expense. Lots of people become homeless and bankrupt for life due to these issues. Personally, my plan is to go back to Europe if I want to launch an American startup because there is no way I would do this without a good health insurance and good social safety nets. Interestingly, we see much more startups in the US even though the downsides of creating your startup in the US are insane. I guess we are really optimistic individuals (or start up founders tend to be crazy individuals).

cfontes 6y ago
try funding a startup in europe and you will understand why.
- dumbfounder 6y ago
  I hear about a lot of startups moving to Canada, the best of both worlds?