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The #1 concern with a school should be the children, not the teachers. Public schools bend-over-backwards to help the teachers over the students. Public schools

The #1 concern with a school should be the children, not the teachers. Public schools bend-over-backwards to help the teachers over the students. Public schools have remained essentially unchanged for 120 years - one teacher divulging knowledge to a room of kids in silent observation. Nothing will change when unions are in control - they have absolutely no incentive.

maya24 6y ago
That is a failure of the public education system not unions. It is not as if the governments are trying to push innovative teaching methods and investing more in public education especially for the underprivileged.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  There is pretty much zero chance of being elected to the public school board without the union endorsement.
  - Frondo 6y ago
    Untrue and a little absurd. I've personally known three people who got elected to their local school boards without any endorsements at all. They all had big families, literally just a lot of people knocking on doors evening after evening, no prior political experience even.
pwinnski 6y ago
Non-union private schools can innovate at will, but so far it's not clear whether any of them have found a solution that works better than the one in place at public schools, while also satisfying the legal requirements put on public schools to accept all students, etc.
- rileymat2 6y ago
  And unionized cannot? Maybe my children’s school is unique but the teaching there is radically different than my own. A couple of years ago there was endless complaints about new ways to teach math.
- worik 6y ago
  Last I heard (twelve months ago) the results for "charter schools" were statistically no different than any other. There are anecdotes to support the point of view they are bad, and anecdotes to support that they are good. The source of funding does not seem to be the problem. The quantity of funding, definitely.
jandrese 6y ago
It's a strange system we live in where teachers get fired at the drop of a hat for seemingly innocuous offenses like teaching evolution or breaking up a fight, while also being absolutely untouchable.
- kube-system 6y ago
  That's because it's not "a system", schooling in the US is thousands of systems.
Ericson2314 6y ago
You all realize half the reason we have "bad schools" is that families home lives have been falling apart for decades, and schools are the only government agency (except for maybe the police...) interfacting with those families on regular basis? That and hyperlocal funding. We can't like society as a whole fall part and expect schools to keep on performing well.
wrsh07 6y ago
I'm honestly kind of surprised to see the teacher union hate in this thread. The teachers that I know work tirelessly, don't make very much money, and do literally everything they can to help students. This is doubly true during the past year when they've had to re work plans so that they work over zoom or in person. I think perhaps the point of friction is that all of this is true and the city can't afford to pay them more, so they get other concessions. I fundamentally disagree with your claim about lack of innovation - in a public high school 15 years ago your story doesn't ring true, much less seeing my friends who are teachers talking about lesson plans today.
- moate 6y ago
  >>I'm honestly kind of surprised to see the teacher union hate in this thread. I mean, have you seen the American Education system? Millions of people thought Betsy Davos was a good idea. MILLIONS. The DOE under her tenure was basically a full on assault against public education in favor of charters/private schools. I've had hours-long, in-person arguments with people who are CONVINCED teachers have the easiest jobs on the planet and we pay them too much. Not to mention many HN commenters in general tend to strong pro-management stance which pushes them anti-union in general.

maya24 6y ago

That is a failure of the public education system not unions. It is not as if the governments are trying to push innovative teaching methods and investing more in public education especially for the underprivileged.

WalterBright 6y ago
There is pretty much zero chance of being elected to the public school board without the union endorsement.
- Frondo 6y ago
  Untrue and a little absurd. I've personally known three people who got elected to their local school boards without any endorsements at all. They all had big families, literally just a lot of people knocking on doors evening after evening, no prior political experience even.

pwinnski 6y ago

Non-union private schools can innovate at will, but so far it's not clear whether any of them have found a solution that works better than the one in place at public schools, while also satisfying the legal requirements put on public schools to accept all students, etc.

rileymat2 6y ago
And unionized cannot? Maybe my children’s school is unique but the teaching there is radically different than my own. A couple of years ago there was endless complaints about new ways to teach math.
worik 6y ago
Last I heard (twelve months ago) the results for "charter schools" were statistically no different than any other. There are anecdotes to support the point of view they are bad, and anecdotes to support that they are good. The source of funding does not seem to be the problem. The quantity of funding, definitely.

jandrese 6y ago

It's a strange system we live in where teachers get fired at the drop of a hat for seemingly innocuous offenses like teaching evolution or breaking up a fight, while also being absolutely untouchable.

kube-system 6y ago
That's because it's not "a system", schooling in the US is thousands of systems.

Ericson2314 6y ago

You all realize half the reason we have "bad schools" is that families home lives have been falling apart for decades, and schools are the only government agency (except for maybe the police...) interfacting with those families on regular basis? That and hyperlocal funding. We can't like society as a whole fall part and expect schools to keep on performing well.

wrsh07 6y ago

I'm honestly kind of surprised to see the teacher union hate in this thread. The teachers that I know work tirelessly, don't make very much money, and do literally everything they can to help students. This is doubly true during the past year when they've had to re work plans so that they work over zoom or in person. I think perhaps the point of friction is that all of this is true and the city can't afford to pay them more, so they get other concessions. I fundamentally disagree with your claim about lack of innovation - in a public high school 15 years ago your story doesn't ring true, much less seeing my friends who are teachers talking about lesson plans today.

moate 6y ago
>>I'm honestly kind of surprised to see the teacher union hate in this thread. I mean, have you seen the American Education system? Millions of people thought Betsy Davos was a good idea. MILLIONS. The DOE under her tenure was basically a full on assault against public education in favor of charters/private schools. I've had hours-long, in-person arguments with people who are CONVINCED teachers have the easiest jobs on the planet and we pay them too much. Not to mention many HN commenters in general tend to strong pro-management stance which pushes them anti-union in general.