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Having spent a bunch of time trying to figure this all out myself, as well, some practical tips (confirmed anecdotally by yours truly): - Place your speakers s

Having spent a bunch of time trying to figure this all out myself, as well, some practical tips (confirmed anecdotally by yours truly): - Place your speakers such that they form an equilateral triangle, with the tweeters pointing directly at your head while you are seated in the control position. Near-field monitors are made for focusing on a 'sweet spot' like this. Using purpose-built speaker stands is the easiest route here. - Treat the first reflection points with foam, or anything that absorbs/scatters sound (e.g. I hung a huge shag rug on the back wall) - Break up smooth surfaces (walls/floors/windows) with other absorptive/non-smooth decorations and materials. Rug on floor, couch at back of room, curtains, even a bookcase; all will help absorb and scatter sound. - A good rule of thumb is to spend as much money on 'treating' the room as the speakers themselves (even great speakers will sound like trash in a room with no treatment). - When using the speakers for mixing/mastering work, listen at a conversational volume. The lower the volume, the less the room matters (and the room matters a lot). - You will get far better sound from decent headphones (I have HD650s) than from all but the most pristinely designed/tuned monitor setups. Probably would cost well over $10k and a lot of knowhow to beat the headphones.

52-6F-62 6y ago
I like the Tom Petty method—I'm interpreting here, and paraphrasing in my own format based on a longer discussion and probably mixing up some of this with other knowledge. Mix— headphones Master— monitors Test— Toyota Corolla (Petty, said something like "just about everybody's gonna be listening in a Toyota"—they'd literally print a tape and run it out to someone's car)
- thisisbrians 6y ago
  I laughed at the Toyota test, because there's a ton of truth in there. Got to test the mix on bad speakers to see if it translates...humbling, but necessary for a good mix. I do test in my car (coincidentally, it is a Corolla) as well :)
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    Isn't that the reason NS10's became popular as monitors, too? "If you can make it sound good on a pair of NS10's it'll sound good everywhere" being the mode†. It's definitely sage advice! † edit: Looks like I fell victim to hearsay. It's just something I'd heard so many times for so many years I assumed it was true, and it may be partly, but here's a great write up on the subject—tangential to the main thread: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    Yet another reason to want 24V or 48V systems to displace 12V systems. The base-model car amp is going to always use the battery voltage, due to the noise, the max volume is going to be high, and that means 2Ohm (or lower) speakers built for maximum dB/W (so often no crossover) with a single +12V rail. I have a few rock CDs from the 90s (Dizzy up the Girl is one) that ar completely unlistenable in many cars; too bad Petty wasn't involved in mastering those.
  - bhj 6y ago
    It’s not that your car system is good or bad, the point is that you are very familiar with how other productions sound on it, making it a good reference system.
    - thisisbrians 6y ago
      Yes and no. Your mix is never going to sound as crisp as it does in the studio (ideal listening conditions). Road noise + reverb off the glass + cheap speakers = not as good a listening environment. It's best to build familiarity of other commercial productions on your ideal setup (monitors/headphones/etc.) for referencing purposes earlier in the process, in my opinion. Good to reference on more 'everyday' listening systems, too (personal favorite, the iPhone speaker).
  - bsder 6y ago
    Aprocyphally, this goes back to The Rolling Stones who used to keep a single car speaker on the mixing desk to approximate how it would sound on a transistor radio of the time.
dharmab 6y ago
I noticed a huge improvement in the quality of my home office videoconferencing after pulling all my sleeping bags out of my camping gear and spreading them on the floor and hanging them around the room, just out of frame.
Slow_Hand 6y ago
I agree that treating your first-reflection points is a massively important step (and maybe the most important step you can take) when balancing your listening position, so I'd like to offer a brief correction to your second point, so as not to misguide others who are new to this: Yes, treat your first-reflection points with material that absorbs as much as energy as possible. However, scattering (aka diffusion) should be a waaay lower priority at your first-reflection points. In fact, if you're absorbing with enough mass at these points there shouldn't be much high or mid-range energy left to scatter. And for the low-mid and low freq energy that isn't being completely absorbed you'd need a hilariously-large diffuser to scatter wavelengths of those size. So don't even worry about diffusion paneling of any kind on your front walls. Just absorb, absorb, absorb at your early-reflection points. I personally use several 5.25" GIK Acoustic panels with another 5" air gap between the back of the panel and the wall. At my listening position I have them placed on the wall to my left, my right, and have several panels hanging above my head with as much of an air-gap between them and the ceiling as I can allow to absorb the ceiling-reflections. There's more nuance to how I determine the exact positioning, but that's the general layout. -------- I'd also like to reinforce the idea that for anyone who needs to make critical audio decisions you should absolutely be investing the time, money and effort to get your room treated/tuned to it's full potential. Otherwise it will undermine every decision you make until you do. You simply cannot make good decisions without A) excellent monitoring (speakers) and B) A properly-tuned room. To ignore either of these is to deceive yourself. Consider it your highest priority before you even consider spending money on additional hi-fi audio gear beyond your speakers. If you can't hear your speakers honestly and with minimal interference from the room then there's little point in focusing on the finer details. --------- If you really want to hear how your room is affecting your audio then play a low and steady note (say a 60 Hz sine wave) and then walk around your room while it's playing. Listen for how dramatically the volume of this single note will fluctuate as you change position. It will likely vary from overbearingly loud to near-total silence. Now consider that every other note that you can possibly hear - from the lowest sub to the highest buzz) will also be subject to these kinds of boosts and dips in volume. Then you'll have some sort of idea of what you're up against.

52-6F-62 6y ago

I like the Tom Petty method—I'm interpreting here, and paraphrasing in my own format based on a longer discussion and probably mixing up some of this with other knowledge. Mix— headphones Master— monitors Test— Toyota Corolla (Petty, said something like "just about everybody's gonna be listening in a Toyota"—they'd literally print a tape and run it out to someone's car)

thisisbrians 6y ago
I laughed at the Toyota test, because there's a ton of truth in there. Got to test the mix on bad speakers to see if it translates...humbling, but necessary for a good mix. I do test in my car (coincidentally, it is a Corolla) as well :)
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  Isn't that the reason NS10's became popular as monitors, too? "If you can make it sound good on a pair of NS10's it'll sound good everywhere" being the mode†. It's definitely sage advice! † edit: Looks like I fell victim to hearsay. It's just something I'd heard so many times for so many years I assumed it was true, and it may be partly, but here's a great write up on the subject—tangential to the main thread: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story
- aidenn0 6y ago
  Yet another reason to want 24V or 48V systems to displace 12V systems. The base-model car amp is going to always use the battery voltage, due to the noise, the max volume is going to be high, and that means 2Ohm (or lower) speakers built for maximum dB/W (so often no crossover) with a single +12V rail. I have a few rock CDs from the 90s (Dizzy up the Girl is one) that ar completely unlistenable in many cars; too bad Petty wasn't involved in mastering those.
- bhj 6y ago
  It’s not that your car system is good or bad, the point is that you are very familiar with how other productions sound on it, making it a good reference system.
  - thisisbrians 6y ago
    Yes and no. Your mix is never going to sound as crisp as it does in the studio (ideal listening conditions). Road noise + reverb off the glass + cheap speakers = not as good a listening environment. It's best to build familiarity of other commercial productions on your ideal setup (monitors/headphones/etc.) for referencing purposes earlier in the process, in my opinion. Good to reference on more 'everyday' listening systems, too (personal favorite, the iPhone speaker).
- bsder 6y ago
  Aprocyphally, this goes back to The Rolling Stones who used to keep a single car speaker on the mixing desk to approximate how it would sound on a transistor radio of the time.

dharmab 6y ago

I noticed a huge improvement in the quality of my home office videoconferencing after pulling all my sleeping bags out of my camping gear and spreading them on the floor and hanging them around the room, just out of frame.

Slow_Hand 6y ago

I agree that treating your first-reflection points is a massively important step (and maybe the most important step you can take) when balancing your listening position, so I'd like to offer a brief correction to your second point, so as not to misguide others who are new to this: Yes, treat your first-reflection points with material that absorbs as much as energy as possible. However, scattering (aka diffusion) should be a waaay lower priority at your first-reflection points. In fact, if you're absorbing with enough mass at these points there shouldn't be much high or mid-range energy left to scatter. And for the low-mid and low freq energy that isn't being completely absorbed you'd need a hilariously-large diffuser to scatter wavelengths of those size. So don't even worry about diffusion paneling of any kind on your front walls. Just absorb, absorb, absorb at your early-reflection points. I personally use several 5.25" GIK Acoustic panels with another 5" air gap between the back of the panel and the wall. At my listening position I have them placed on the wall to my left, my right, and have several panels hanging above my head with as much of an air-gap between them and the ceiling as I can allow to absorb the ceiling-reflections. There's more nuance to how I determine the exact positioning, but that's the general layout. -------- I'd also like to reinforce the idea that for anyone who needs to make critical audio decisions you should absolutely be investing the time, money and effort to get your room treated/tuned to it's full potential. Otherwise it will undermine every decision you make until you do. You simply cannot make good decisions without A) excellent monitoring (speakers) and B) A properly-tuned room. To ignore either of these is to deceive yourself. Consider it your highest priority before you even consider spending money on additional hi-fi audio gear beyond your speakers. If you can't hear your speakers honestly and with minimal interference from the room then there's little point in focusing on the finer details. --------- If you really want to hear how your room is affecting your audio then play a low and steady note (say a 60 Hz sine wave) and then walk around your room while it's playing. Listen for how dramatically the volume of this single note will fluctuate as you change position. It will likely vary from overbearingly loud to near-total silence. Now consider that every other note that you can possibly hear - from the lowest sub to the highest buzz) will also be subject to these kinds of boosts and dips in volume. Then you'll have some sort of idea of what you're up against.