7 ms·

People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment :/ UBI seems like a good motivation and a fun experiment, looking forward to

by m1117 6y ago

People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment :/ UBI seems like a good motivation and a fun experiment, looking forward to hopefully AY launching it in NYC.

gumby 6y ago
> People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment :/ Do you have any evidence for this? This is not claimed in the article as far as I can tell. I don't understand how anyone might make that calculation. I don't believe any state pays your full salary while you were on unemployment. And it's time limited.
- cassianoleal 6y ago
  I know quite a few people who have either not looked for jobs because it would have meant less income overall, or refused promotions / higher salary for the same reasons. This is a well known phenomenon known as the welfare trap [0]. This may not be the case if you have the opportunity to go from unemployed directly to a higher salary but most unemployed people have minimal wage as a best prospect, many times not even that. UBI evens it out in that if you do get a job you'll make more money instead of downright trading your free time for busy time with no financial gain. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap
- dx87 6y ago
  As an anecdote, my wife used to work in the front office of a low income apartment complex, and she said it was common for tenants to purposefully stay on welfare/unemployment, while getting paid under the table for stuff like landscaping and handyman work. Getting a normal job would have effectively been a pay cut for them.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  Unemployment is only a minor part of this simply because it expires after a fixed duration. Housing and healthcare are much bigger factors. For many people, getting a job means losing their state funded healthcare and housing, but the income from the job is not enough to make up the difference.
rocketpastsix 6y ago
>People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment hasn't this been debunked repeatedly? While yes, Im sure there are some people who do their hardest not to work to collect money, most people want to be out there working. I dont think youre correct per se, but I do think that part of the reason people linger on unemployment is because jobs that they are able to get dont pay nearly enough as unemployment, thus there is no incentive to get back to work.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  I know someone who is fighting this. It's not so much they don't want to work, but the fact that with our current system there are places where working causes you to earn less. Unemployment is one piece, but food stamps and other benefits get cut off as well. Working costs money. Commuting, child care, uniforms, etc. For a person with children, a minimum wage job is tough to justify. A system where government help was tapered until people were above the poverty line would eliminate these perverse incentives.
- hnrodey 6y ago
  >People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment It's not all people do this or all people do that. It 100% happens that a non-trivial percentage of people on government benefits (unemployment, etc.) choose to stay on these benefits for their entire duration and only then pursue work opportunities.
  - adkadskhj 6y ago
    And in traditional fashion many people (mostly just one group, lets be honest..) throw out the baby with the bathwater on social safety nets. Because some people exploit it, the people who need it get damned. edit: Edited to be a bit less pointed... A bit.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      It seems weird to be criticizing a group for identifying a problem that actually exists (welfare traps / phase out cliffs / perverse incentives) while proposing a solution to it that would actually work better (NIT/UBI). There are proponents of a negative income tax on both sides, e.g. conservative economist Milton Friedman.
hnrodey 6y ago
>People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment It's not all people do this or all people do that. It 100% happens that some people on government benefits (unemployment, etc.) choose to stay on these benefits for their entire duration and then pursue work opportunities.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  Much of this has to do with well understood welfare cliffs. Sure, some people won't work if they have the option for a menial existence on welfare. Many more would like to increase their income, but would suffer loss of healthcare, housing, or other necessities if they do.

by m1117 6y ago

People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment :/ UBI seems like a good motivation and a fun experiment, looking forward to hopefully AY launching it in NYC.

gumby 6y ago

> People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment :/ Do you have any evidence for this? This is not claimed in the article as far as I can tell. I don't understand how anyone might make that calculation. I don't believe any state pays your full salary while you were on unemployment. And it's time limited.

cassianoleal 6y ago
I know quite a few people who have either not looked for jobs because it would have meant less income overall, or refused promotions / higher salary for the same reasons. This is a well known phenomenon known as the welfare trap [0]. This may not be the case if you have the opportunity to go from unemployed directly to a higher salary but most unemployed people have minimal wage as a best prospect, many times not even that. UBI evens it out in that if you do get a job you'll make more money instead of downright trading your free time for busy time with no financial gain. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap
dx87 6y ago
As an anecdote, my wife used to work in the front office of a low income apartment complex, and she said it was common for tenants to purposefully stay on welfare/unemployment, while getting paid under the table for stuff like landscaping and handyman work. Getting a normal job would have effectively been a pay cut for them.
s1artibartfast 6y ago
Unemployment is only a minor part of this simply because it expires after a fixed duration. Housing and healthcare are much bigger factors. For many people, getting a job means losing their state funded healthcare and housing, but the income from the job is not enough to make up the difference.

rocketpastsix 6y ago

>People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment hasn't this been debunked repeatedly? While yes, Im sure there are some people who do their hardest not to work to collect money, most people want to be out there working. I dont think youre correct per se, but I do think that part of the reason people linger on unemployment is because jobs that they are able to get dont pay nearly enough as unemployment, thus there is no incentive to get back to work.

ogre_codes 6y ago
I know someone who is fighting this. It's not so much they don't want to work, but the fact that with our current system there are places where working causes you to earn less. Unemployment is one piece, but food stamps and other benefits get cut off as well. Working costs money. Commuting, child care, uniforms, etc. For a person with children, a minimum wage job is tough to justify. A system where government help was tapered until people were above the poverty line would eliminate these perverse incentives.
hnrodey 6y ago
>People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment It's not all people do this or all people do that. It 100% happens that a non-trivial percentage of people on government benefits (unemployment, etc.) choose to stay on these benefits for their entire duration and only then pursue work opportunities.
- adkadskhj 6y ago
  And in traditional fashion many people (mostly just one group, lets be honest..) throw out the baby with the bathwater on social safety nets. Because some people exploit it, the people who need it get damned. edit: Edited to be a bit less pointed... A bit.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    It seems weird to be criticizing a group for identifying a problem that actually exists (welfare traps / phase out cliffs / perverse incentives) while proposing a solution to it that would actually work better (NIT/UBI). There are proponents of a negative income tax on both sides, e.g. conservative economist Milton Friedman.

hnrodey 6y ago

>People who have unemployment don't want to work because they'll loose unemployment It's not all people do this or all people do that. It 100% happens that some people on government benefits (unemployment, etc.) choose to stay on these benefits for their entire duration and then pursue work opportunities.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
Much of this has to do with well understood welfare cliffs. Sure, some people won't work if they have the option for a menial existence on welfare. Many more would like to increase their income, but would suffer loss of healthcare, housing, or other necessities if they do.