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My point was more that "his" is grammatically correct and didn't need fixing than that "their" is wrong, but why is using "his" offensive? I see "her" used oft

by amock 15y ago

My point was more that "his" is grammatically correct and didn't need fixing than that "their" is wrong, but why is using "his" offensive? I see "her" used often as neuter pronoun and I have never found it offensive even though I'm not female.

asymptotic 15y ago
dictionary.com "their [thair; unstressed ther] 2. (used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her ): Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch?" Wikipedia: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Singular_they https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Singular_they "Singular they is the use of the pronoun they (or its inflected forms) when plurality is not required by the context. Singular they indicates indeterminacy: either in regard to number — "Anyone who thinks they have been affected should contact their doctor"; or, controversially, regarding gender — "One student failed their exam." I accept the usage of their as singular is a bit odd. But I'm unwilling to accept that anyone considers the usage of "his" to be gender-neutral. Maybe "her", but most certainly not "his".
- bromley 15y ago
  I struggle to see how "her" could be considered gender-neutral. In my opinion that's just making the same mistake all over again. Not meaning to dismiss the underlying issue though. I just think that, short of inventing a new word, singular "their" makes a lot more sense.
- eru 15y ago
  "she/her" is no more gender-neutral than "he/his". While I prefer "they", the only real solution is for everybody to learn Turkish, a language that doesn't even have gender in its grammar.
paul9290 15y ago
Using his is not PC, there are female hackers. In my experience I thought only other guys coded and then I went for an interview that went awful. I was interviewed by two people separately. First was a guy, who was the Director of Development. Before he left the room, he said Janice will be interviewing you next. I thought she must be the office manager or HR person and during interview I said "Oh so you do the HR stuff around here?" She said, "No, I code," to which I replied "You code - huh?" Needless to say I didnt get that job, yet I learned something.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  "That's rare enough to elicit my surprise, interesting."
  - wvoq 15y ago
    It's not really as benign as you're insinuating it to be.
    - StavrosK 15y ago
      Why not? It's a fact that there are almost no women in cs, so the op's initial assumption was reasonable.
- DevX101 15y ago
  If I were her, I would have sacked you too.
- rachelbythebay 15y ago
  Your kind is more common than some might think. "Hi, this is $obvious_female_name calling from $company for $candidate, please?" "Oh, I thought this would be a technical interview." Result? Instant 1.0 score, which basically means that if you hire this person, I will quit. Turns out they've hired a bunch of those people anyway, and I quit anyway.
  - lawrencejohnson 15y ago
    If you were supposed to be performing technical interviews, why would you base the candidates' ratings on something completely non-technical?
    - rachelbythebay 15y ago
      It's not just a technical interview. It's also a "should we hire this person", and in that case, the answer is no.
michael_nielsen 15y ago
In 1992, I asked a well-known professional linguist what the most interesting change going on in English was. He replied immediately and with enormous enthusiasm that it was "The change of 'their' to being an acceptable singular pronoun", and launched into a detailed technical discussion of why this is so interesting for a linguist. It seemed to be a professional appreciation, for he gave no indication at all of what he thought of the politics. He did, however, mention that while the change would take decades, already in 1992 it looked as though it had unstoppable momentum.
- wisty 15y ago
  It's kind of similar to how "you" (another plural) replaced "thee". Except in some versions of The Lords Prayer.
  - eru 15y ago
    In German, we have similar strange things happening. Our polite form of address is third person plural. It used to be third person singular and or second person plural, depending on situation.

by amock 15y ago

asymptotic 15y ago

dictionary.com "their [thair; unstressed ther] 2. (used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her ): Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch?" Wikipedia: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Singular_they https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Singular_they "Singular they is the use of the pronoun they (or its inflected forms) when plurality is not required by the context. Singular they indicates indeterminacy: either in regard to number — "Anyone who thinks they have been affected should contact their doctor"; or, controversially, regarding gender — "One student failed their exam." I accept the usage of their as singular is a bit odd. But I'm unwilling to accept that anyone considers the usage of "his" to be gender-neutral. Maybe "her", but most certainly not "his".

bromley 15y ago
I struggle to see how "her" could be considered gender-neutral. In my opinion that's just making the same mistake all over again. Not meaning to dismiss the underlying issue though. I just think that, short of inventing a new word, singular "their" makes a lot more sense.
eru 15y ago
"she/her" is no more gender-neutral than "he/his". While I prefer "they", the only real solution is for everybody to learn Turkish, a language that doesn't even have gender in its grammar.

paul9290 15y ago

Using his is not PC, there are female hackers. In my experience I thought only other guys coded and then I went for an interview that went awful. I was interviewed by two people separately. First was a guy, who was the Director of Development. Before he left the room, he said Janice will be interviewing you next. I thought she must be the office manager or HR person and during interview I said "Oh so you do the HR stuff around here?" She said, "No, I code," to which I replied "You code - huh?" Needless to say I didnt get that job, yet I learned something.

StavrosK 15y ago
"That's rare enough to elicit my surprise, interesting."
- wvoq 15y ago
  It's not really as benign as you're insinuating it to be.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    Why not? It's a fact that there are almost no women in cs, so the op's initial assumption was reasonable.
DevX101 15y ago
If I were her, I would have sacked you too.
rachelbythebay 15y ago
Your kind is more common than some might think. "Hi, this is $obvious_female_name calling from $company for $candidate, please?" "Oh, I thought this would be a technical interview." Result? Instant 1.0 score, which basically means that if you hire this person, I will quit. Turns out they've hired a bunch of those people anyway, and I quit anyway.
- lawrencejohnson 15y ago
  If you were supposed to be performing technical interviews, why would you base the candidates' ratings on something completely non-technical?
  - rachelbythebay 15y ago
    It's not just a technical interview. It's also a "should we hire this person", and in that case, the answer is no.

michael_nielsen 15y ago

In 1992, I asked a well-known professional linguist what the most interesting change going on in English was. He replied immediately and with enormous enthusiasm that it was "The change of 'their' to being an acceptable singular pronoun", and launched into a detailed technical discussion of why this is so interesting for a linguist. It seemed to be a professional appreciation, for he gave no indication at all of what he thought of the politics. He did, however, mention that while the change would take decades, already in 1992 it looked as though it had unstoppable momentum.

wisty 15y ago
It's kind of similar to how "you" (another plural) replaced "thee". Except in some versions of The Lords Prayer.
- eru 15y ago
  In German, we have similar strange things happening. Our polite form of address is third person plural. It used to be third person singular and or second person plural, depending on situation.