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I think you and the others in this thread disagree on the actual problem, and as long as that is the case this will just be a debate of people talking past each

I think you and the others in this thread disagree on the actual problem, and as long as that is the case this will just be a debate of people talking past each other. The problem you see is: something prevents some people from contributing enough to society to afford housing. The problem others see is: some people do not have housing. I am with the second group. In an era of unparalleled abundance, is it so crazy to provide for everyone’s basic needs without expecting anything in return? What is even the point of “society”, and our contributions to it, if not to make life better for everyone?

whiddershins 6y ago
This mischaracterizes my point. We agree on the problem: some people don’t have housing. Second point: if some subset, which I say is the majority, of people who can’t afford housing are in this situation because they literally can’t work ... Decreasing rent or raising wages does nothing to address this. Since these are the most vulnerable people, I feel that bringing concepts like the imbalance between rents and wages actually muddies the waters.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  Aren’t you arguing against a straw man? No one is making the case that the ultimate solution is lowering rent or raising wages. If we agree that’s the problem, can we then agree on the simplest solution? Give everyone housing, with no conditions or strings attached.
  - whiddershins 6y ago
    No. I’m replying to a comment purporting to be about helping the homeless that is in fact a critique of capitalism. It isn’t smart or effective to mix the two. Pick one, and maybe something can get accomplished.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      That doesn’t make any sense. You can’t discuss a socioeconomic problem without also critiquing the society and economic system within which it exists. Any discussion about homelessness within a capitalist society is necessarily also a discussion about capitalism.
      - whiddershins 6y ago
        No. It’s not. Because homelessness is primarily a health problem not a monetary one. And also, every were the problem primary economic, it doesn’t necessarily follow that capitalism is the problem, it could be bad or corrupt policy that is straightforward to change without diving in on reforming capitalism.

whiddershins 6y ago

This mischaracterizes my point. We agree on the problem: some people don’t have housing. Second point: if some subset, which I say is the majority, of people who can’t afford housing are in this situation because they literally can’t work ... Decreasing rent or raising wages does nothing to address this. Since these are the most vulnerable people, I feel that bringing concepts like the imbalance between rents and wages actually muddies the waters.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Aren’t you arguing against a straw man? No one is making the case that the ultimate solution is lowering rent or raising wages. If we agree that’s the problem, can we then agree on the simplest solution? Give everyone housing, with no conditions or strings attached.
- whiddershins 6y ago
  No. I’m replying to a comment purporting to be about helping the homeless that is in fact a critique of capitalism. It isn’t smart or effective to mix the two. Pick one, and maybe something can get accomplished.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    That doesn’t make any sense. You can’t discuss a socioeconomic problem without also critiquing the society and economic system within which it exists. Any discussion about homelessness within a capitalist society is necessarily also a discussion about capitalism.
    - whiddershins 6y ago
      No. It’s not. Because homelessness is primarily a health problem not a monetary one. And also, every were the problem primary economic, it doesn’t necessarily follow that capitalism is the problem, it could be bad or corrupt policy that is straightforward to change without diving in on reforming capitalism.