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Would you be able to comment on the examples from the talk?

by Zhyl 6y ago

UncleMeat 6y ago
Blow just says "then the roman empire fell and that knowledge was lost" when discussing the Lycurgus Cup. He just states this. No citation or investigation. This is the classic oversimplification of both technological record keeping and the nature of the collapse of rome. There is no clear evidence that the "fall of rome" (which means about a dozen different things that happened over 1000 years) is responsible for the mechanism for creating such glass being unrecorded. He makes the same claim about alchemists fire. Again, ill supported. There are a tremendous number of reasons why ancient technology might not have surviving records to today. Amateur historians love to just assume this is due to "civilizational collapse." He also seemingly inverts things. Is civilizational collapse the cause of loss of technology? Or is it the opposite? Does technological de-sophistication cause civilizational collapse? He seems to argue both in his talk.
- Zhyl 6y ago
  I think that's a fair statement in isolation, and I do find Blow's grandiose and loose use of language to get in the way of his message, but I believe the point stands. The knowledge was lost and that is the part that is most relevant here. The factors that caused it, be it the the 'collapse of an empire' or just one illiterate glassblower's creation not being documented before his death (or any other of the tremendous number of reasons) are less material than the fact that we have a chaotic system where we're trying to stop entropy. To that end, I don't think he needed to consult a historian in order to make his point any more valid, but he could probably have done with a historian proofreader to tidy up any flowery language that might detract from the overall message.
- mechEpleb 6y ago
  Knowledge on how to make things is ephemeral, is constantly lost and has to be rediscovered even in the modern world. People whose day job is playing meaningless language games don't have any appreciation of how much idiosyncracy goes into doing even simple technical tasks.

Would you be able to comment on the examples from the talk?

by Zhyl 6y ago

Would you be able to comment on the examples from the talk?

Blow just says "then the roman empire fell and that knowledge was lost" when discussing the Lycurgus Cup. He just states this. No citation or investigation. This is the classic oversimplification of both technological record keeping and the nature of the collapse of rome. There is no clear evidence that the "fall of rome" (which means about a dozen different things that happened over 1000 years) is responsible for the mechanism for creating such glass being unrecorded. He makes the same claim about alchemists fire. Again, ill supported. There are a tremendous number of reasons why ancient technology might not have surviving records to today. Amateur historians love to just assume this is due to "civilizational collapse." He also seemingly inverts things. Is civilizational collapse the cause of loss of technology? Or is it the opposite? Does technological de-sophistication cause civilizational collapse? He seems to argue both in his talk.

Zhyl 6y ago
I think that's a fair statement in isolation, and I do find Blow's grandiose and loose use of language to get in the way of his message, but I believe the point stands. The knowledge was lost and that is the part that is most relevant here. The factors that caused it, be it the the 'collapse of an empire' or just one illiterate glassblower's creation not being documented before his death (or any other of the tremendous number of reasons) are less material than the fact that we have a chaotic system where we're trying to stop entropy. To that end, I don't think he needed to consult a historian in order to make his point any more valid, but he could probably have done with a historian proofreader to tidy up any flowery language that might detract from the overall message.
mechEpleb 6y ago
Knowledge on how to make things is ephemeral, is constantly lost and has to be rediscovered even in the modern world. People whose day job is playing meaningless language games don't have any appreciation of how much idiosyncracy goes into doing even simple technical tasks.