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Yes. I think your comment points out a big issue in our societies. However, note that the article isn't about Bitcoin. Central bank digital currencies (CBDC) b

Yes. I think your comment points out a big issue in our societies. However, note that the article isn't about Bitcoin. Central bank digital currencies (CBDC) basically operate with a centralized database; no "mining", no pseudo-anonymity, most important, no gambling-like course changes. It represents the "offline money" 1:1, only is it managed centralized rather than federalized by many banks.

StavrosK 6y ago
Wouldn't that also mean perfect visibility into the movement of money, and the death of cash? Seems to me that perfect visibility into funds will be as deleterious to society as perfect law enforcement. How are you going to lead the next BLM, or LGBTQ rights, or just a plain old revolution when you can't fund anything? There was a time, not long ago, when being gay was actually against the law. Imagine wanting to build a civil rights organization for homosexuals, but being unable to fund it because the government immediately and exactly knows which people associated with such a criminal enterprise.
- austhrow743 6y ago
  Yes it would mean exactly that.
- fjiizrsdfjjj 6y ago
  I'm just diving into digital money to be honest, I'd be very happy if somebody had information on this topic. My gut feeling is that these are societal issues beyond the mere implementation of money. You could have policies that protect donors of societal organizations and automatically wipe associated records. I think the reality now is that big money is being laundered and stolen from society by big corporations. At the same time it's an illusion that citizens have anonymity in our daily endeavors. Look at Bitcoin. Pushed by anarcho-romantic illusions, it's the dream of non-regulated big money gambling that hurts society... We should focus on making our society robust, open and inclusive instead of thinking that we need some decentralized crypto solution.
  - fjiizrsdfjjj 6y ago
    My point is, in reality we now trust multiple layers of private banks, payment providers like Visa & MasterCard, Google Pay and Paypal. These are known to give a fuck about society, shutting down things as they like, and even bringing US jurisdiction into other societies. The advantages of anonymous payments are purely hypothetical for normal people and only benefit big players. Having digital central bank money would enable us to cut off the private money industry that makes a living with data analysis.
    - Ekaros 6y ago
      I would much prefer to have a state run a bank. As they are very less likely to arbitrary cut of my access. And on other hand they can already order any operator in the area to hand over them the details of what I have done in past years...
- razius 6y ago
  Yes. It gives absolute control of money to one central entity, they can monitory and choose who has access to it and how are they using it. As a digital currency is essentially programmable money so rules and conditions on how it's spent can be set like what's the interest rate (negative rates also are possible), if there's a time limit on spending or rules on how much you are allowed to hold. Anonymity is also gone, from https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/Report_on_a_digital_euro~4d7268b458.en.pdf https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/Report_on_a_digital_...: - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erou2mQW4AA-ixa?format=png&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erou2mQW4AA-ixa?format=png&name=... - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eror-rYW4AAJBLz?format=png&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eror-rYW4AAJBLz?format=png&name=...
- jeofken 6y ago
  BLM and LGBTQP is already supported by the state. The army and police join the pride parade, and last summer a Swedish policewoman kneeled down for rioting foreigners with the sign “white silence is violence”. Those movements represent the establishment. In Sweden, nationalists, libertarians, and conservatives are hounded by the state.

StavrosK 6y ago

Wouldn't that also mean perfect visibility into the movement of money, and the death of cash? Seems to me that perfect visibility into funds will be as deleterious to society as perfect law enforcement. How are you going to lead the next BLM, or LGBTQ rights, or just a plain old revolution when you can't fund anything? There was a time, not long ago, when being gay was actually against the law. Imagine wanting to build a civil rights organization for homosexuals, but being unable to fund it because the government immediately and exactly knows which people associated with such a criminal enterprise.

austhrow743 6y ago
Yes it would mean exactly that.
fjiizrsdfjjj 6y ago
I'm just diving into digital money to be honest, I'd be very happy if somebody had information on this topic. My gut feeling is that these are societal issues beyond the mere implementation of money. You could have policies that protect donors of societal organizations and automatically wipe associated records. I think the reality now is that big money is being laundered and stolen from society by big corporations. At the same time it's an illusion that citizens have anonymity in our daily endeavors. Look at Bitcoin. Pushed by anarcho-romantic illusions, it's the dream of non-regulated big money gambling that hurts society... We should focus on making our society robust, open and inclusive instead of thinking that we need some decentralized crypto solution.
- fjiizrsdfjjj 6y ago
  My point is, in reality we now trust multiple layers of private banks, payment providers like Visa & MasterCard, Google Pay and Paypal. These are known to give a fuck about society, shutting down things as they like, and even bringing US jurisdiction into other societies. The advantages of anonymous payments are purely hypothetical for normal people and only benefit big players. Having digital central bank money would enable us to cut off the private money industry that makes a living with data analysis.
  - Ekaros 6y ago
    I would much prefer to have a state run a bank. As they are very less likely to arbitrary cut of my access. And on other hand they can already order any operator in the area to hand over them the details of what I have done in past years...
razius 6y ago
Yes. It gives absolute control of money to one central entity, they can monitory and choose who has access to it and how are they using it. As a digital currency is essentially programmable money so rules and conditions on how it's spent can be set like what's the interest rate (negative rates also are possible), if there's a time limit on spending or rules on how much you are allowed to hold. Anonymity is also gone, from https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/Report_on_a_digital_euro~4d7268b458.en.pdf https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/Report_on_a_digital_...: - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erou2mQW4AA-ixa?format=png&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erou2mQW4AA-ixa?format=png&name=... - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eror-rYW4AAJBLz?format=png&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eror-rYW4AAJBLz?format=png&name=...
jeofken 6y ago
BLM and LGBTQP is already supported by the state. The army and police join the pride parade, and last summer a Swedish policewoman kneeled down for rioting foreigners with the sign “white silence is violence”. Those movements represent the establishment. In Sweden, nationalists, libertarians, and conservatives are hounded by the state.