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I think HN is a bit unfairly biased against the touchbar, since it serves almost zero purpose for programming work. However, it's quite handy when doing multim

I think HN is a bit unfairly biased against the touchbar, since it serves almost zero purpose for programming work. However, it's quite handy when doing multimedia work with applications that integrate with the touchbar (Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro, Photoshop)

kristiandupont 6y ago
Is this your experience or your assumption? I was personally very excited when they announced the touchbar but having lived with it for 5 years now, I hate it. And I do a lot of media work, mostly in Ableton Live but also Adobe Lightroom and others. I just bought a new Macbook Air and I was very happy that the feature of not having the bar was cheaper as it was something I would have gladly paid money for.
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  For photoshop, which I'll admit I use infrequently, it's very handy. I also use Ableton and Lightroom a reasonable amount (neither are my day job though), and am constantly left wishing that they integrated with the touchbar. I have a midi controller that I use for sliding controls in both when at my desk, but I don't take it when I'm out and about, which is where having the ability to adjust analog controls (sliders/dials) with the touchbar would be incredibly useful.
- revscat 6y ago
  I don’t hate it, I just ignore it. Most of the time my laptop is closed and attached to my monitor, so it’s unavailable. On the rare occasions I use it as a laptop, I might use the Touch Bar to adjust the volume, but not much else, if anything.
saagarjha 6y ago
It's not completely useless for programming: for example, I use the button to stop an app in the debugger pretty often.
- jki275 6y ago
  Those were F keys before, which I could put my finger on and use without having to hunt for the correct featureless spot on the Touch Bar every time I needed to step.
- rualca 6y ago
  > It's not completely useless for programming: for example, I use the button to stop an app in the debugger pretty often. The hypothetical advantages of that usecase are negated by the lack of physical F-keys, which are critical to start/stop/step through code.
geerlingguy 6y ago
I spend hours a day in FCP and Photoshop. The ONLY thing it's useful for is scrubbing, but even there, I have other tools that are more helpful and don't take away F keys I can use as macros. Many times more useful are tactile programmable keys like what I get on an Elgato Stream Deck, or other dedicated hardware. The touch bar is useless since it's one solid strip. Creatives don't like staring at their keyboards either.
gumby 6y ago
It's for people who look at the keyboard when they type. I think it would be a godsend for the low end machines. Instead they put it on the high end machines and left it off the entry level ones -- completely backwards. I personally never used the F keys for anything so don't really care if they are there or not (I use them just for brightness and mute) but the Touch Bar was too sensitive. And while I initially thought it would be cool to have an extra status display, a display someplace nobody ever looks is pretty useless.
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  It's for people who use the keyboard for more then typing! That's the point of the OP you responded to. Computers are for more than essays and coding.
  - Pokepokalypse 6y ago
    True - but multimedia folks can buy separate controls for their specific needs; (for example, I use a separate volume control knob; just to have a handy way to control volume; mainly because my external keyboard's volume buttons require fn-key which is annoying when I need to respond quickly to change volume or mute. So the touch bar might be great for SOME purposes in multimedia, not for others; but a variety of VERY CHEAP peripherals are available for these purposes - no need for a one-size-fits-all integrated approach.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  It's for people who look at the keyboard when they type. That's a pretty narrow view. I've been a touch typer for many decades now (had to pass a minimum WPM score on an IBM Selectric to get my journalism degree), and I find the touchbar quite useful. The problem is that you have to customize it. And the tools Apple supplies are inadequate. In my case, I have a bunch of "keys" on the touchbar that trigger various macros. Building a major change for one small set of users ("people who look at the keyboard") isn't how Apple does things.
mgkimsal 6y ago
apple was never consistent - had they brought Touch Bar (and Touch ID) to external keyboard, I would have had more reason to adjust to it.
Karunamon 6y ago
For me, the problem is that programs have a habit of putting buttons that do important things in the natural resting area of where my hands go. Zoom, for instance, puts the mic, camera, and share desktop buttons right where f1-f3 should go. If they were actual keys it wouldn't matter, but since they're touch sensitive, I have to suddenly be very conscious of where I rest my hands or else risk sending content I do not want to a meeting.

kristiandupont 6y ago

Is this your experience or your assumption? I was personally very excited when they announced the touchbar but having lived with it for 5 years now, I hate it. And I do a lot of media work, mostly in Ableton Live but also Adobe Lightroom and others. I just bought a new Macbook Air and I was very happy that the feature of not having the bar was cheaper as it was something I would have gladly paid money for.

toomanybeersies 6y ago
For photoshop, which I'll admit I use infrequently, it's very handy. I also use Ableton and Lightroom a reasonable amount (neither are my day job though), and am constantly left wishing that they integrated with the touchbar. I have a midi controller that I use for sliding controls in both when at my desk, but I don't take it when I'm out and about, which is where having the ability to adjust analog controls (sliders/dials) with the touchbar would be incredibly useful.
revscat 6y ago
I don’t hate it, I just ignore it. Most of the time my laptop is closed and attached to my monitor, so it’s unavailable. On the rare occasions I use it as a laptop, I might use the Touch Bar to adjust the volume, but not much else, if anything.

saagarjha 6y ago

It's not completely useless for programming: for example, I use the button to stop an app in the debugger pretty often.

jki275 6y ago
Those were F keys before, which I could put my finger on and use without having to hunt for the correct featureless spot on the Touch Bar every time I needed to step.
rualca 6y ago
> It's not completely useless for programming: for example, I use the button to stop an app in the debugger pretty often. The hypothetical advantages of that usecase are negated by the lack of physical F-keys, which are critical to start/stop/step through code.

geerlingguy 6y ago

I spend hours a day in FCP and Photoshop. The ONLY thing it's useful for is scrubbing, but even there, I have other tools that are more helpful and don't take away F keys I can use as macros. Many times more useful are tactile programmable keys like what I get on an Elgato Stream Deck, or other dedicated hardware. The touch bar is useless since it's one solid strip. Creatives don't like staring at their keyboards either.

gumby 6y ago

It's for people who look at the keyboard when they type. I think it would be a godsend for the low end machines. Instead they put it on the high end machines and left it off the entry level ones -- completely backwards. I personally never used the F keys for anything so don't really care if they are there or not (I use them just for brightness and mute) but the Touch Bar was too sensitive. And while I initially thought it would be cool to have an extra status display, a display someplace nobody ever looks is pretty useless.

unethical_ban 6y ago
It's for people who use the keyboard for more then typing! That's the point of the OP you responded to. Computers are for more than essays and coding.
- Pokepokalypse 6y ago
  True - but multimedia folks can buy separate controls for their specific needs; (for example, I use a separate volume control knob; just to have a handy way to control volume; mainly because my external keyboard's volume buttons require fn-key which is annoying when I need to respond quickly to change volume or mute. So the touch bar might be great for SOME purposes in multimedia, not for others; but a variety of VERY CHEAP peripherals are available for these purposes - no need for a one-size-fits-all integrated approach.
reaperducer 6y ago
It's for people who look at the keyboard when they type. That's a pretty narrow view. I've been a touch typer for many decades now (had to pass a minimum WPM score on an IBM Selectric to get my journalism degree), and I find the touchbar quite useful. The problem is that you have to customize it. And the tools Apple supplies are inadequate. In my case, I have a bunch of "keys" on the touchbar that trigger various macros. Building a major change for one small set of users ("people who look at the keyboard") isn't how Apple does things.

mgkimsal 6y ago

apple was never consistent - had they brought Touch Bar (and Touch ID) to external keyboard, I would have had more reason to adjust to it.

Karunamon 6y ago

For me, the problem is that programs have a habit of putting buttons that do important things in the natural resting area of where my hands go. Zoom, for instance, puts the mic, camera, and share desktop buttons right where f1-f3 should go. If they were actual keys it wouldn't matter, but since they're touch sensitive, I have to suddenly be very conscious of where I rest my hands or else risk sending content I do not want to a meeting.