5 ms·

TBQH I have a real dislike for the relativistic thinking that people apply to this. Everyone does struggle, yes. But the degree of struggle, for some, is expone

TBQH I have a real dislike for the relativistic thinking that people apply to this. Everyone does struggle, yes. But the degree of struggle, for some, is exponentially more. To just participate in the smallest parts of life... eating, cleaning, emptying one's bowels, is a daily challange. What if you could only afford energy for one outing to the shop? What if taking a shower felt like running a marathon? What if making a meal was prohibiltely exhausting? The everyday small parts of life that most people enjoy are inaccessible to many. The degrees of separation between between an able-bodied person and a disabled person can be so massive. So, yes, all people struggle, but the struggle of some denies them reaching the threshold of energy required to do even the minimum expected daily activites. That threshold is the crucial separator between isolation and participation. .. not even to mention the socioeconomic effects.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
notatrumper 6y ago
And what exactly is the point of complaining about that?
- chromanoid 6y ago
  It's like complaining about people who claim they live under a fascist regime because they have to wear masks in the supermarket. It's making a point about human decency.
  - notatrumper 6y ago
    Maybe for some people the consequences of lockdowns are more severe than for you. Aren't you all about feeling with people's predicaments? Also I don't agree with the (common) argument that nobody should be allowed to complain about anything, because there is always somebody who has it worse, somewhere in the world. Like with solving "first world problems" - yes, it seems frivolous to worry about getting an even better iPhone, while people are starving somewhere else. On the other hand, those people, if they can solve their immediate problems, would perhaps also enjoy having nice iPhones. So it is not inherently bad to worry about the existence of nice iPhones. Or put differently, it can not be the only purpose of life to help people who have it worse. I mean somebody could adopt that as their philosophy, sure. But it requires people who need help, therefore it can not be a universal philosophy. If suddenly you run out of people who need help, you have lost your purpose in life again.
    - chromanoid 6y ago
      > Maybe for some people the consequences of lockdowns are more severe than for you. Aren't you all about feeling with people's predicaments? Bringing up fascism to make your struggle important is never a good idea. I can feel solidarity without being reminded of really dark aspects of humanity. > Or put differently, it can not be the only purpose of life to help people who have it worse. I agree. I only talk about acknowledgement. It's not that hard. Also it's simply unethical to compare first world problems with somebody starving in a concentration camp. You can do that, but it's annoying and stupid. I think it's ok to complain about stupidity of other people.
      - notatrumper 6y ago
        It's OK to worry about totalitarian control, as there are always groups and politicians working towards that goal. It's actually one of the lessons one should draw from remembering dark times. Some people may worry more than others. I have read reports from therapists that they have clients from former communist countries who struggle with the lockdowns, because it reminds them or horrific things they experienced. There are also a lot of people who have built up enourmous hatred and murderous thoughts because of Corona. Where I live, there are writings on the wall that "Covidiots should be burned" and stuff like that. It's not that far fetched to think about totalitarian regimes murdering people in that context.
        chromanoid 6y ago
        > It's OK to worry about totalitarian control I agree. > Some people may worry more than others. I have read reports from therapists that they have clients from former communist countries who struggle with the lockdowns, because it reminds them or horrific things they experienced. Those are probably not the people who compare themselves with Sophie Scholl on protests or something like that. They know the difference. > It's not that far fetched to think about totalitarian regimes murdering people in that context. Really? I think this only makes sense when you have a rosy idea about how Totalitarism looks like.
strken 6y ago
The phrasing of the article specifically invites relativistic thinking by starting from a premise that's obviously untrue for some, or even most, readers without long-term medical conditions. In fact, when I first read it, it half-convinced me that I was sick too. Where were those unlimited spoons when I overslept, decided not to shower, put on a pair of dirty socks and sprayed them with deodorant because there were no clean ones left, got to the office an hour late, failed to complete any major task all day, fell asleep on the train and missed my stop, got home an hour later than I should have, ate half a tub of icecream and some raw carrots instead of cooking dinner, and went to bed leaving two days worth of dishes in the sink and still having no clean socks? I'm still unsure whether I'm an unusually low-spoon individual, or whether the author thinks nominally healthy people are doing better than they really are, or whether there's actually something wrong with me, or what's going on.
- dsr_ 6y ago
  If this is happening to you regularly, you are showing signs of depression and/or burnout. They're closely related. Yes, get help. If this happens to you rarely, it was just a bad day.
notatrumper 6y ago
Some people have it even worse - they die. So again, what is the point? I acknowledge that some (many) people have it worse than myself. Now what? It is also a common recommendation to meditate on ones inevitable death daily. Maybe thinking about the fate of sick people could have a similar effect. And of course one can wonder how to improve things for sick people. But that's only useful to some extent. I think it makes mostly sense for people in the social circle of the sick person. I don't think there is much I can do for the spoon woman, safe for donating some money to Lupus research. And I also can not spend all my waking hours donating to various health research organisations (only so many spoons to go around). So maybe I donate some money to Lupus research, but beyond that, there would not be much benefit to me thinking much more about it.
- chromanoid 6y ago
  When you bond with somebody with Lupus or another severe illness or who generally has it worse than yourself you can now better understand how they live their life. Many people don't know how such things affect a person on a daily basis. You just learned something about the human condition. Isn't that something? You don't have to do something at all.
  - notatrumper 6y ago
    What makes you assume I learned something I didn't already know? As I said, I know there are people who have it worse than me. And as I also said, and you confirmed, it makes sense if you have somebody in your circles who has such a condition. Apart from that - my question was, why do you complain, or get annoyed?
    - chromanoid 6y ago
      The fact that you complain about somebody who complains about somebody, who thinks it's a good idea to bring up that "everybody feels bad sometimes" in a comment section about a personal report regarding a severe illness, should have told me that you are probably unable to learn in this regard. I complain about stupid people who think it's necessary to bring up that "everybody struggles some more, some less" in a comment section about a personal report regarding a severe illness. Let's say your fictional (?) dog dies and you talk about your experience with it. Should I tell you that my wife's dad died in a motorcycle crash? Or that everybody has their struggles? That would be the epitome of human decency, wouldn't it?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

notatrumper 6y ago

And what exactly is the point of complaining about that?

chromanoid 6y ago
It's like complaining about people who claim they live under a fascist regime because they have to wear masks in the supermarket. It's making a point about human decency.
- notatrumper 6y ago
  Maybe for some people the consequences of lockdowns are more severe than for you. Aren't you all about feeling with people's predicaments? Also I don't agree with the (common) argument that nobody should be allowed to complain about anything, because there is always somebody who has it worse, somewhere in the world. Like with solving "first world problems" - yes, it seems frivolous to worry about getting an even better iPhone, while people are starving somewhere else. On the other hand, those people, if they can solve their immediate problems, would perhaps also enjoy having nice iPhones. So it is not inherently bad to worry about the existence of nice iPhones. Or put differently, it can not be the only purpose of life to help people who have it worse. I mean somebody could adopt that as their philosophy, sure. But it requires people who need help, therefore it can not be a universal philosophy. If suddenly you run out of people who need help, you have lost your purpose in life again.
  - chromanoid 6y ago
    > Maybe for some people the consequences of lockdowns are more severe than for you. Aren't you all about feeling with people's predicaments? Bringing up fascism to make your struggle important is never a good idea. I can feel solidarity without being reminded of really dark aspects of humanity. > Or put differently, it can not be the only purpose of life to help people who have it worse. I agree. I only talk about acknowledgement. It's not that hard. Also it's simply unethical to compare first world problems with somebody starving in a concentration camp. You can do that, but it's annoying and stupid. I think it's ok to complain about stupidity of other people.
    - notatrumper 6y ago
      It's OK to worry about totalitarian control, as there are always groups and politicians working towards that goal. It's actually one of the lessons one should draw from remembering dark times. Some people may worry more than others. I have read reports from therapists that they have clients from former communist countries who struggle with the lockdowns, because it reminds them or horrific things they experienced. There are also a lot of people who have built up enourmous hatred and murderous thoughts because of Corona. Where I live, there are writings on the wall that "Covidiots should be burned" and stuff like that. It's not that far fetched to think about totalitarian regimes murdering people in that context.
      - chromanoid 6y ago
        > It's OK to worry about totalitarian control I agree. > Some people may worry more than others. I have read reports from therapists that they have clients from former communist countries who struggle with the lockdowns, because it reminds them or horrific things they experienced. Those are probably not the people who compare themselves with Sophie Scholl on protests or something like that. They know the difference. > It's not that far fetched to think about totalitarian regimes murdering people in that context. Really? I think this only makes sense when you have a rosy idea about how Totalitarism looks like.

strken 6y ago

The phrasing of the article specifically invites relativistic thinking by starting from a premise that's obviously untrue for some, or even most, readers without long-term medical conditions. In fact, when I first read it, it half-convinced me that I was sick too. Where were those unlimited spoons when I overslept, decided not to shower, put on a pair of dirty socks and sprayed them with deodorant because there were no clean ones left, got to the office an hour late, failed to complete any major task all day, fell asleep on the train and missed my stop, got home an hour later than I should have, ate half a tub of icecream and some raw carrots instead of cooking dinner, and went to bed leaving two days worth of dishes in the sink and still having no clean socks? I'm still unsure whether I'm an unusually low-spoon individual, or whether the author thinks nominally healthy people are doing better than they really are, or whether there's actually something wrong with me, or what's going on.

dsr_ 6y ago
If this is happening to you regularly, you are showing signs of depression and/or burnout. They're closely related. Yes, get help. If this happens to you rarely, it was just a bad day.

notatrumper 6y ago

Some people have it even worse - they die. So again, what is the point? I acknowledge that some (many) people have it worse than myself. Now what? It is also a common recommendation to meditate on ones inevitable death daily. Maybe thinking about the fate of sick people could have a similar effect. And of course one can wonder how to improve things for sick people. But that's only useful to some extent. I think it makes mostly sense for people in the social circle of the sick person. I don't think there is much I can do for the spoon woman, safe for donating some money to Lupus research. And I also can not spend all my waking hours donating to various health research organisations (only so many spoons to go around). So maybe I donate some money to Lupus research, but beyond that, there would not be much benefit to me thinking much more about it.

chromanoid 6y ago
When you bond with somebody with Lupus or another severe illness or who generally has it worse than yourself you can now better understand how they live their life. Many people don't know how such things affect a person on a daily basis. You just learned something about the human condition. Isn't that something? You don't have to do something at all.
- notatrumper 6y ago
  What makes you assume I learned something I didn't already know? As I said, I know there are people who have it worse than me. And as I also said, and you confirmed, it makes sense if you have somebody in your circles who has such a condition. Apart from that - my question was, why do you complain, or get annoyed?
  - chromanoid 6y ago
    The fact that you complain about somebody who complains about somebody, who thinks it's a good idea to bring up that "everybody feels bad sometimes" in a comment section about a personal report regarding a severe illness, should have told me that you are probably unable to learn in this regard. I complain about stupid people who think it's necessary to bring up that "everybody struggles some more, some less" in a comment section about a personal report regarding a severe illness. Let's say your fictional (?) dog dies and you talk about your experience with it. Should I tell you that my wife's dad died in a motorcycle crash? Or that everybody has their struggles? That would be the epitome of human decency, wouldn't it?