5 ms·

I don't think this is true. I once spent some time at an Amish community, and I saw their elderly and sick all living relatively productive lives. They were c

I don't think this is true. I once spent some time at an Amish community, and I saw their elderly and sick all living relatively productive lives. They were cooking, cleaning, watching children, and performing other small tasks that made everyone's life a bit nicer. The only reason these "menial" jobs were available to them was the deliberate inefficiency of the Amish lifestyle.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
These things aren't unavailable in greater society. You simply have a choice. I'm not sure you have as much choice in Amish society, and I think the lack of choice is cruel. If my elbow is broken, I can't cook efficiently. If it doesn't work correctly, same. If walking to the toilet saps my energy, I shouldn't be expected to do the same. I should also now mention that elderly doesn't mean you are sick. Loads of folks are busy throughout old age. "sick" doesn't always mean you can't do anything, either, and I'm pretty sure the Amish communities take care of folks that can't.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  They are unavailable in the sense that rent/utilities/transportation is expensive whether you want it or not, and minimum wage part time jobs won't pay rent. It's high cost of living that urban singles areas have and rural multi-generational homes don't.
k__ 6y ago
I think the Amish optimize not for minimum spoon use but for maximum spoon availability.
- FeepingCreature 6y ago
  Predictable spoon consumption?
pjc50 6y ago
The key thing there is not "no automation" but co-living in the same community; the main barrier to having your retired parents look after the children while you go to work is the need of most people to move across the country to look for jobs.
- endominus 6y ago
  But those are linked attributes. Automation encourages/requires centralization and industrial scaling, and efficient allocation of labor demands that said labor be liquid in regards to physical location, making jobs less situated. The workforce must become more mobile, flocking to the latest job locus, and therefore more settled people are left behind.
  - dash2 6y ago
    Alternatively, automation might act as a platform for small local businesses (think people who sell via Shopify or Amazon). Indeed, I believe Americans have got less mobile in recent years, not more, though I'm not so sure that is a good thing.
    - pjc50 6y ago
      Unlikely, since automation has a positive return to scale. The surest evidence of this is the profitability of Amazon itself. > people who sell via Shopify or Amazon If you're selling by mail countrywide, you're not a "local" business any more even if you remain a small business.
      - alisonkisk 6y ago
        Yes it is local in the context of this discussion (working near your previous home). Of course you are competing with people in other localities who might outcompete you due to better local economic business conditions

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

These things aren't unavailable in greater society. You simply have a choice. I'm not sure you have as much choice in Amish society, and I think the lack of choice is cruel. If my elbow is broken, I can't cook efficiently. If it doesn't work correctly, same. If walking to the toilet saps my energy, I shouldn't be expected to do the same. I should also now mention that elderly doesn't mean you are sick. Loads of folks are busy throughout old age. "sick" doesn't always mean you can't do anything, either, and I'm pretty sure the Amish communities take care of folks that can't.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
alisonkisk 6y ago
They are unavailable in the sense that rent/utilities/transportation is expensive whether you want it or not, and minimum wage part time jobs won't pay rent. It's high cost of living that urban singles areas have and rural multi-generational homes don't.

k__ 6y ago

I think the Amish optimize not for minimum spoon use but for maximum spoon availability.

FeepingCreature 6y ago
Predictable spoon consumption?

pjc50 6y ago

The key thing there is not "no automation" but co-living in the same community; the main barrier to having your retired parents look after the children while you go to work is the need of most people to move across the country to look for jobs.

endominus 6y ago
But those are linked attributes. Automation encourages/requires centralization and industrial scaling, and efficient allocation of labor demands that said labor be liquid in regards to physical location, making jobs less situated. The workforce must become more mobile, flocking to the latest job locus, and therefore more settled people are left behind.
- dash2 6y ago
  Alternatively, automation might act as a platform for small local businesses (think people who sell via Shopify or Amazon). Indeed, I believe Americans have got less mobile in recent years, not more, though I'm not so sure that is a good thing.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Unlikely, since automation has a positive return to scale. The surest evidence of this is the profitability of Amazon itself. > people who sell via Shopify or Amazon If you're selling by mail countrywide, you're not a "local" business any more even if you remain a small business.
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      Yes it is local in the context of this discussion (working near your previous home). Of course you are competing with people in other localities who might outcompete you due to better local economic business conditions