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Engineering and politics should not mix. I try to pick providers which are neutral and focus their energy on building good products, not activism.

trianglem 6y ago
Good products matter. Not being a fascist also matters.
- nikolay 6y ago
  Aren't we a bit abusing the historical terms lately? Do you know what Fascism is? Do you know the difference between Fascists and Nazis? What is the difference between them two and the Communists?
  - trianglem 6y ago
    Yeah far right authoritarians are fascists by definition.
    - hagibborim 6y ago
      No. Fascists are authoritarians by definition, but the one-dimensional spectrum of "rightwing" and "leftwing" is not suitable for any treatment of fascism that is based in history. "Fascism" and "right-wing authoritarian" are synonymous, and that loss of nuance is giving us blind spots
      - hagibborim 6y ago
        EDIT: "Fascism" and "right-wing authoritarian[ism]" are [not] synonymous
- gedy 6y ago
  From Merriam-Webster: "In simplest terms, fascism refers to a specific way of organizing a society: under fascism, a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people in that society, and allows no dissent or disagreement." "Left" and "right" here don't mean a whole lot in regards to fascism imho, just as Hitler and Stalin weren't all that different.
  - nikolay 6y ago
    Fascism is anti-conservatism, too. You can't call conservatives "fascists" then.
dTal 6y ago
I'm curious if your opinion on this extends to, say, IG Farben providing Zyklon B to the Nazis (or IBM providing information services to same). At some point 'politics' just becomes 'ethics'. Participation in an activity is not "neutral", it is endorsement. "Just following orders" isn't even a valid defense for soldiers - why should it apply to corporations who are free to refuse business?
- its-summertime 6y ago
  > I'm curious if your opinion on this extends to, say, IG Farben providing Zyklon B to the Nazis Wasn't IG Farben already taking in political money to find such chemicals? > Research by Fritz Haber of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Physical Chemistry and Electrochemistry led to the founding in 1919 of Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung mbH (Degesch), a state-controlled consortium formed to investigate military use of the chemical. of which IG Farben was a part. So it seems like this would suggest to not add politics (la military weapons research) to engineering
  - dTal 6y ago
    What's "political money"? Does it come in different denominations to regular money? Should IG Farben have refused to do business with the Nazi regime on ethical grounds? I'm confused - should companies pick and choose who they do business with, or shouldn't they?
    - its-summertime 6y ago
      Well it'd be a company explicitly avoiding getting into politics wouldn't it? I don't think anyone has spoken against companies getting to pick and choose in this chain, just on what merits they should pick and choose on

trianglem 6y ago

Good products matter. Not being a fascist also matters.

nikolay 6y ago
Aren't we a bit abusing the historical terms lately? Do you know what Fascism is? Do you know the difference between Fascists and Nazis? What is the difference between them two and the Communists?
- trianglem 6y ago
  Yeah far right authoritarians are fascists by definition.
  - hagibborim 6y ago
    No. Fascists are authoritarians by definition, but the one-dimensional spectrum of "rightwing" and "leftwing" is not suitable for any treatment of fascism that is based in history. "Fascism" and "right-wing authoritarian" are synonymous, and that loss of nuance is giving us blind spots
    - hagibborim 6y ago
      EDIT: "Fascism" and "right-wing authoritarian[ism]" are [not] synonymous
gedy 6y ago
From Merriam-Webster: "In simplest terms, fascism refers to a specific way of organizing a society: under fascism, a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people in that society, and allows no dissent or disagreement." "Left" and "right" here don't mean a whole lot in regards to fascism imho, just as Hitler and Stalin weren't all that different.
- nikolay 6y ago
  Fascism is anti-conservatism, too. You can't call conservatives "fascists" then.

dTal 6y ago

I'm curious if your opinion on this extends to, say, IG Farben providing Zyklon B to the Nazis (or IBM providing information services to same). At some point 'politics' just becomes 'ethics'. Participation in an activity is not "neutral", it is endorsement. "Just following orders" isn't even a valid defense for soldiers - why should it apply to corporations who are free to refuse business?

its-summertime 6y ago
> I'm curious if your opinion on this extends to, say, IG Farben providing Zyklon B to the Nazis Wasn't IG Farben already taking in political money to find such chemicals? > Research by Fritz Haber of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Physical Chemistry and Electrochemistry led to the founding in 1919 of Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung mbH (Degesch), a state-controlled consortium formed to investigate military use of the chemical. of which IG Farben was a part. So it seems like this would suggest to not add politics (la military weapons research) to engineering
- dTal 6y ago
  What's "political money"? Does it come in different denominations to regular money? Should IG Farben have refused to do business with the Nazi regime on ethical grounds? I'm confused - should companies pick and choose who they do business with, or shouldn't they?
  - its-summertime 6y ago
    Well it'd be a company explicitly avoiding getting into politics wouldn't it? I don't think anyone has spoken against companies getting to pick and choose in this chain, just on what merits they should pick and choose on