6 ms·

Here's the best summary I have seen of what happened in Portland last year (at least, up through July): https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2020/07/20/wha

Here's the best summary I have seen of what happened in Portland last year (at least, up through July): https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2020/07/20/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-battle-of-portland/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2020/07/20/what-you... There was definitely some vandalism involved (and e.g. people shooting fireworks at the wall of a fortified building), but federal authorities were incredibly disingenuous in their descriptions of events and justifications of escalation. Most of the dangerous violence was police-on-protestor.

generalizations 6y ago
That site leans left-wing. I wouldn't consider them necessarily a good source. You might as well quote Fox news on a right-wing event. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bellingcat/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bellingcat/
- wtfiswiththis 6y ago
  Trying to compare Bellingcat, which publishes things like investigations into the downing of MH17, to Fox News. That is terrible. Fox News has entertainment departments, fought in court to have Tucker Carlson lie to his followers with impunity. They republished incitement to ramming attacks. Bellingcat.. They just do investigations. If you want to try to break things down into black and white left vs right, at least try to do it with comparable organizations. Or even better, try to refute the substance of the article instead of going to a media bias site to see how you feel they land on the political spectrum. Even the site you linked has them listed as "left-center" with "high factual reporting." How is this grounds to outright dismiss them? The slightest degree of "leftness" makes you want to exclude sources? Do you have any factual reason to be doing this, or is this your personal bias towards right wing content forcing you to seek means to exclude information you don't like the looks of?
- devindotcom 6y ago
  Honestly, that comparison is very disingenuous just from the information on the site you just linked: Fox News: "Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared." Bellingcat: "we rate Bellingcat Left-Center biased based on story selection and positions that moderately favor the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record." These are vastly, vastly different forms and scales of "bias." They are nearly incomparable.
- vcxy 6y ago
  From your source, Fox is further right than Bellingcat is left, and Bellingcat is much better on factual reporting. I understand what you're saying about getting news about conflicts from a particular point of view, but your source seems to contradict the analogy.
refurb 6y ago
This is the most disingenuous description of what was happening in Portland. I mean, anyone could follow the video on Twitter posted by Antifa. But you’re telling me it wasn’t a riot?
- jacobolus 6y ago
  I didn't say there wasn't rioting involved (some smashed and burned buildings, some statues torn down, dumpsters set on fire, etc.), but based on what I have read and seen – as an outsider who has not visited Portland in years – most of the direct clashes between cops and protestors were instigated by the cops, and most of the violence was cop-on-protestor. As far as I know no cops were killed. Were any even seriously injured? I saw a news photo of a cop with a bruised shin where it was hit with a rock; another report mentioned a cop whose glove got burned by a firework. The vast majority of the protestors in Portland were out during the day, and were peaceful and organized. There were undoubtedly some people who came out at night because they wanted to tussle with the cops, launch their fireworks at that federal building, and so on. My impression (again, second-hand, as an outsider) was that the cops (local and federal) did a terrible job of diffusing that energy.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Haha... look at how you’re framing it. “Tussle with the cops” and “launch fireworks at federal buildings” and of course who is to blame? “The cops who did a terrible job of diffusing that energy”. Why are you framing it in such soft terms? I mean, cops had higher powered lasers aimed at their eyes. Molotov cocktails throw at officers and federal buildings (I think most people call that arson). Night, after night, after night. Yet let me guess, you label the people that shoved their way into the Capitol building “seditionists” and “domestic terrorists”? Why not couch their actions in the same soft terms? Why does one riot at the Capitol deserve such condemnation when dozens of nights of rioting in Portland are waved away? Why not blame the DC cops for not “diffusing the energy”? I have no problem condemning what happened at the Capitol building. I’m just tired of hypocrisy when judging the other side.
    - 6y ago
dev_by_day 6y ago
Here are a few examples of violence in portland done by protestors: Molotov cocktail(fire bombs) thrown at officers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H86W82Bgpq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H86W82Bgpq4 Molotov cocktails(fire bombs) thrown at court building https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMkTfGlM-f0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMkTfGlM-f0 Man hits a federal officer with a hammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs Protestor knifes a black trump supporter https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/man-knifed-in-back-at-portland-protest-i-was-stabbed-for-being-a-conservative-journalist.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/man-knifed-in-back-...

generalizations 6y ago

That site leans left-wing. I wouldn't consider them necessarily a good source. You might as well quote Fox news on a right-wing event. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bellingcat/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bellingcat/

wtfiswiththis 6y ago
Trying to compare Bellingcat, which publishes things like investigations into the downing of MH17, to Fox News. That is terrible. Fox News has entertainment departments, fought in court to have Tucker Carlson lie to his followers with impunity. They republished incitement to ramming attacks. Bellingcat.. They just do investigations. If you want to try to break things down into black and white left vs right, at least try to do it with comparable organizations. Or even better, try to refute the substance of the article instead of going to a media bias site to see how you feel they land on the political spectrum. Even the site you linked has them listed as "left-center" with "high factual reporting." How is this grounds to outright dismiss them? The slightest degree of "leftness" makes you want to exclude sources? Do you have any factual reason to be doing this, or is this your personal bias towards right wing content forcing you to seek means to exclude information you don't like the looks of?
devindotcom 6y ago
Honestly, that comparison is very disingenuous just from the information on the site you just linked: Fox News: "Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared." Bellingcat: "we rate Bellingcat Left-Center biased based on story selection and positions that moderately favor the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record." These are vastly, vastly different forms and scales of "bias." They are nearly incomparable.
vcxy 6y ago
From your source, Fox is further right than Bellingcat is left, and Bellingcat is much better on factual reporting. I understand what you're saying about getting news about conflicts from a particular point of view, but your source seems to contradict the analogy.

refurb 6y ago

This is the most disingenuous description of what was happening in Portland. I mean, anyone could follow the video on Twitter posted by Antifa. But you’re telling me it wasn’t a riot?

jacobolus 6y ago
I didn't say there wasn't rioting involved (some smashed and burned buildings, some statues torn down, dumpsters set on fire, etc.), but based on what I have read and seen – as an outsider who has not visited Portland in years – most of the direct clashes between cops and protestors were instigated by the cops, and most of the violence was cop-on-protestor. As far as I know no cops were killed. Were any even seriously injured? I saw a news photo of a cop with a bruised shin where it was hit with a rock; another report mentioned a cop whose glove got burned by a firework. The vast majority of the protestors in Portland were out during the day, and were peaceful and organized. There were undoubtedly some people who came out at night because they wanted to tussle with the cops, launch their fireworks at that federal building, and so on. My impression (again, second-hand, as an outsider) was that the cops (local and federal) did a terrible job of diffusing that energy.
- refurb 6y ago
  Haha... look at how you’re framing it. “Tussle with the cops” and “launch fireworks at federal buildings” and of course who is to blame? “The cops who did a terrible job of diffusing that energy”. Why are you framing it in such soft terms? I mean, cops had higher powered lasers aimed at their eyes. Molotov cocktails throw at officers and federal buildings (I think most people call that arson). Night, after night, after night. Yet let me guess, you label the people that shoved their way into the Capitol building “seditionists” and “domestic terrorists”? Why not couch their actions in the same soft terms? Why does one riot at the Capitol deserve such condemnation when dozens of nights of rioting in Portland are waved away? Why not blame the DC cops for not “diffusing the energy”? I have no problem condemning what happened at the Capitol building. I’m just tired of hypocrisy when judging the other side.
  - 6y ago

dev_by_day 6y ago

Here are a few examples of violence in portland done by protestors: Molotov cocktail(fire bombs) thrown at officers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H86W82Bgpq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H86W82Bgpq4 Molotov cocktails(fire bombs) thrown at court building https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMkTfGlM-f0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMkTfGlM-f0 Man hits a federal officer with a hammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs Protestor knifes a black trump supporter https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/man-knifed-in-back-at-portland-protest-i-was-stabbed-for-being-a-conservative-journalist.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/man-knifed-in-back-...