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None of this is Democrats or liberal's fault. Their party has been yelling about getting off fossil fuels for the last 20 years. Obama encouraged organizations

None of this is Democrats or liberal's fault. Their party has been yelling about getting off fossil fuels for the last 20 years. Obama encouraged organizations that were re-training coal miners and others in dead industries to join the digital workforce. It's the alt-right who have been promising to go back to 'normal' and that coal is the future. The economics aren't there, fossil fuels is a dying industry. Even if we aren't elimiating fossil fuels tomorrow, we don't need 2,000 men underground digging, we have machines, automation and different mining methods now. Any one who perpetuates this idea that we can get through this without radical change is fooling themselves. Is Biden going to lead us into the future? Unlikely, but he is not going to perpetuate a lie. Coal is not coming back, drivers are on the way out, the economy is going to be turned upsides down in the next decade and we need to admit that fact.

rayiner 6y ago
Nobody brought up coal this election cycle. The complaint about Biden was his perceived promise to ban fracking.
- yazaddaruvala 6y ago
  Given Breitbart's reputation, the publication date, and the title: This is at-least one source of coal (and other fossil fuels) being politicized this election cycle. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/29/joe-biden-no-coal-oil-plants-america/ https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/29/joe-biden-no-c...
  - rayiner 6y ago
    Okay, that source also mentions coal, but oil is the part of that statement that really set people off. Since Obama took office to just before Covid, US oil production nearly tripled. The decline of coal is economically priced in, but shutting down domestic oil and gas production anytime soon would take a shotgun to the economy.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      > but shutting down domestic oil and gas production anytime soon would take a shotgun to the economy. You should watch the relevant answer from Biden[0], the Brietbart article is heavily biased and misleading. His position is simple and data driven, it is no longer economically viable and the market will no longer create any new coal or oil fire plants in America. To fact check Biden: "Under the 25-year contract ... Los Angeles ... would pay less than 2 cents per kilowatt-hour ... the lowest price ever paid for solar power in the United States, and cheaper than the cost of electricity from a typical natural gas-fired power plant"[1]. This includes the cost of production and storage. But what about other parts of the country with less sun? "solar and wind energy will dominate America’s new generation in 2020, making up 76% of new generation ..., while coal and natural gas will dominate 2020 retirements with 85% of plant closures."[2]. And this was 2020 while Trump was helping the fossil fuel industry. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1lY5jFNcQ&start=1h44m03s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1lY5jFNcQ&start=1h44m03s [1] https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-08-27/los-angeles-solar-energy-storage-cheap https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-08-27/los-ang... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/renewable-energy-prices-hit-record-lows-how-can-utilities-benefit-from-unstoppable-solar-and-wind/?sh=564609e52c84 https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/ren...
      - rayiner 6y ago
        Biden said: > Here’s what he said: "During our administration in the recovery act, I was...able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to cheaper than or as cheap as coal, and gas, and oil. Nobody’s going to build another coal-fired power plant in America. No one’s going to build another oil-fired plant in America. They’re going to move to renewable energy." If Biden promises to increase subsidies for renewables (which, as I understand, he plans to do), and that causes disinvestment away from say gas-fired plants, isn't it reasonable for folks in places like Pennsylvania and Texas where fracking is a huge part of the economy to oppose such measures? If "the market" is going to make it so nobody builds new gas-fired plants (I agree the market won't build new coal or oil plants) why is Biden proposing $2 trillion in subsidies for renewables? To be clear, I think Biden's renewables plan is basically the correct one, but its going to be bad for currently prosperous middle class parts of Pennsylvania, Texas, etc., that rely heavily on gas extraction.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 6y ago
>None of this is Democrats or liberal's fault. Their party has been yelling about getting off fossil fuels for the last 20 years. What a wrote wasn't just about coal. Heck, I didn't ever had coal in mind when I wrote it. It's a general situation with working class jobs and middle class prospects, that's way beyond coal shutting down. And the "encouraged organizations that were re-training coal miners and others in dead industries to join the digital workforce" part shows how out of touch those running the "business as usual" part were. This is the advice/career path famously summarized as "learn to code", as if 40-50 year old coal miners (and millions of people in other working class jobs) are suddenly going to be able to complete those programs and join some "digital workforce" (in any capacity other than POS operators). And as if the market eagerly awaits for those people to join the digital workforce and will jump at the chance to hire them.
- redisman 6y ago
  Biden’s plan is better than that - kickstart the green energy industry with plenty of blue collar jobs. What’s the alternative for these people? Keep racking “wins” in the culture war while their communities self destruct? Or vote for a socialist that will hand them money, but that seems very unpopular too.

rayiner 6y ago

Nobody brought up coal this election cycle. The complaint about Biden was his perceived promise to ban fracking.

yazaddaruvala 6y ago
Given Breitbart's reputation, the publication date, and the title: This is at-least one source of coal (and other fossil fuels) being politicized this election cycle. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/29/joe-biden-no-coal-oil-plants-america/ https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/29/joe-biden-no-c...
- rayiner 6y ago
  Okay, that source also mentions coal, but oil is the part of that statement that really set people off. Since Obama took office to just before Covid, US oil production nearly tripled. The decline of coal is economically priced in, but shutting down domestic oil and gas production anytime soon would take a shotgun to the economy.
  - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
    > but shutting down domestic oil and gas production anytime soon would take a shotgun to the economy. You should watch the relevant answer from Biden[0], the Brietbart article is heavily biased and misleading. His position is simple and data driven, it is no longer economically viable and the market will no longer create any new coal or oil fire plants in America. To fact check Biden: "Under the 25-year contract ... Los Angeles ... would pay less than 2 cents per kilowatt-hour ... the lowest price ever paid for solar power in the United States, and cheaper than the cost of electricity from a typical natural gas-fired power plant"[1]. This includes the cost of production and storage. But what about other parts of the country with less sun? "solar and wind energy will dominate America’s new generation in 2020, making up 76% of new generation ..., while coal and natural gas will dominate 2020 retirements with 85% of plant closures."[2]. And this was 2020 while Trump was helping the fossil fuel industry. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1lY5jFNcQ&start=1h44m03s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1lY5jFNcQ&start=1h44m03s [1] https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-08-27/los-angeles-solar-energy-storage-cheap https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-08-27/los-ang... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/renewable-energy-prices-hit-record-lows-how-can-utilities-benefit-from-unstoppable-solar-and-wind/?sh=564609e52c84 https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/ren...
    - rayiner 6y ago
      Biden said: > Here’s what he said: "During our administration in the recovery act, I was...able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to cheaper than or as cheap as coal, and gas, and oil. Nobody’s going to build another coal-fired power plant in America. No one’s going to build another oil-fired plant in America. They’re going to move to renewable energy." If Biden promises to increase subsidies for renewables (which, as I understand, he plans to do), and that causes disinvestment away from say gas-fired plants, isn't it reasonable for folks in places like Pennsylvania and Texas where fracking is a huge part of the economy to oppose such measures? If "the market" is going to make it so nobody builds new gas-fired plants (I agree the market won't build new coal or oil plants) why is Biden proposing $2 trillion in subsidies for renewables? To be clear, I think Biden's renewables plan is basically the correct one, but its going to be bad for currently prosperous middle class parts of Pennsylvania, Texas, etc., that rely heavily on gas extraction.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 6y ago

>None of this is Democrats or liberal's fault. Their party has been yelling about getting off fossil fuels for the last 20 years. What a wrote wasn't just about coal. Heck, I didn't ever had coal in mind when I wrote it. It's a general situation with working class jobs and middle class prospects, that's way beyond coal shutting down. And the "encouraged organizations that were re-training coal miners and others in dead industries to join the digital workforce" part shows how out of touch those running the "business as usual" part were. This is the advice/career path famously summarized as "learn to code", as if 40-50 year old coal miners (and millions of people in other working class jobs) are suddenly going to be able to complete those programs and join some "digital workforce" (in any capacity other than POS operators). And as if the market eagerly awaits for those people to join the digital workforce and will jump at the chance to hire them.

redisman 6y ago
Biden’s plan is better than that - kickstart the green energy industry with plenty of blue collar jobs. What’s the alternative for these people? Keep racking “wins” in the culture war while their communities self destruct? Or vote for a socialist that will hand them money, but that seems very unpopular too.