5 ms·

It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Yes, we have many people doing horrible things all over the world, but people be

It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Yes, we have many people doing horrible things all over the world, but people being vile because their ancestors had less sun than others is a special kind of pointless stupidity.

mothsonasloth 6y ago
>It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. What a snobbish and elitist thing to say. Try saying that to the Sentinelese or Amazonian tribes that still don't have contact with our messed up globalist world. One of the reasons we are living in this chaotic time is because of a growing middle class elite living in metropolitan areas who are either unwilling or incapable of understanding people outside of their bubbles.
- llamaz 6y ago
  there's a few gradations of difference between Trump voters and neo-Nazis... parent is talking about the latter
- x1ph0z 6y ago
  well when some people are resorting to white supremacy, of course it's a big social gap that reasonable people don't want to understand.
- exclusiv 6y ago
  I don't think the parent meant any disparagement to actual primitive tribes. Why did you assume that?
  - jariel 6y ago
    "I don't think the parent meant any disparagement to actual primitive tribes. Why did you assume that?" Because all of these statements of ethnicity have to be contextualized. You can't just say 'Well White this, Black that' - other than in a very American context. I live in Quebec and they are essentially the only classical, coherent 'ethnic group' (i.e. language, governance) in North America aside from Aboriginals - and due to the fact they are surrounded by the 'Angloshphere' there is a very legit concern about the erosion of their culture. New migrants basically don't want to learn French, and more and more English language 'everything' encroaches on the culture. Now - some Pro-Quebec sentiment is really ridiculous, racist, over the top and frankly dumb (they want to ban 'Staples' from being called 'Staples' because it's English) but there is an underlying legitimacy. Unspoken in all of this is that Quebec culture is defacto European and essentially (though not technically) White. Also of interesting note that intellectually it's super-secular (they don't like their Catholic past) at the same time, culturally, kind of super Catholic. Point being: there are calls for the 'saving of our culture' basically daily. It's part of the program here and it's not overtly racist or radical. My MP (like Congressperson) is form 'Quebec Solidaire' and it's the very farthest Left group in North America it actually has roots in a former Communist part. (I didn't vote for them!) - but - they are equally Nationalist! They walk a tight intellectual line with justifying their Nationalism on a 'racially inclusive' basis, even though their ideology is at the same time very exclusive to outsiders, who happen to be Anglophones ... and people of colour. In the face of Globalism 'We Are All Aboriginals' - which is to say every single culture save maybe Han Chinese is under the threat of being 'globalized' in a kind of Anglo-American hot-mess of commercialism. So yes, it's not the same thing for some French guy to be saying such things as it is for someone from the disappearing Tribes of the Amazon, but this isn't the 20th century anymore, the fault lines are changing quickly and context is really important.
    - exclusiv 6y ago
      > Because all of these statements of ethnicity have to be contextualized. I don't see how it wasn't contexualized? They were responding to the Fourteen Words racist trash.
- ASalazarMX 6y ago
  Maybe it will sound less snobbish (although more self-serving I fear) if I tell you I'm Mexican? Mexico is a mixed race country, you will find people of all colors here, the concept of race is so weak common people are barely aware of it. There are racists who see whiter people as more beautiful, or darker (specially indigenous) people as lesser, but hate is extremely rare and frowned upon. It's the hate part that I can't wrap my head around. Xenophobic tribes maybe hate visitors for their race, but they also could reject them for their effect in neighboring tribes, we don't know. TL;DR: I can understand if people find Scottish people attractive, or Mexican people ugly, but I am indeed guilty of not understanding how people can actually grow hate from that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
lamename 6y ago
It's a reminder of how ancient our brains really are, despite our advancement of the average state of society as a whole.
nostromo 6y ago
I present to you the words of Kristen Clarke, Biden’s future head of the DoJ’s Civil Rights division: “Melanin endows blacks with greater mental, physical, and spiritual abilities — something which cannot be measured by Eurocentric standards.” This is just one quote from her letter, which goes on at length about black superiority. I think the problem we have right now is we have two sets of standards. People that have been reintroducing racist concepts into government, academia and the media shouldn’t be surprised when there is a similarly racist backlash. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/11/4/clarke-should-retract-statements-pbtbwo-years/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/11/4/clarke-should-r...
- hwillis 6y ago
  > The book, she said, “was generating wide acclaim for its racist views” and her intention in opening the letter “with an absurd claim that Black people are superior based on the melanin in their skin” was to “hold up a mirror to reflect how reprehensible the premise of black inferiority was set.” > “It was meant to express an equally absurd point of view — fighting one ridiculous absurd racist theory with another ridiculous absurd theory,” Clarke explained, “and the goal was all about [exposing] the ugly racist underpinnings of the Bell Curve theory. It was deeply personal and profoundly important to Black students and other students of color who felt that their right to be on campus was challenged. And frankly, the fight that we were leading as students is a fight that I am still very much a part of today.” https://forward.com/news/national/462089/bidens-deputy-ag-pick-touts-record-on-antisemitism-amid-criticism-of/ https://forward.com/news/national/462089/bidens-deputy-ag-pi... The full letter certainly seems consistent with that: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/10/28/blacks-seek-an-end-to-abuse/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/10/28/blacks-seek-an...
  - nostromo 6y ago
    So she sets the record straight over 20 years later, only after being appointed by Biden, that she was only pretending to be racist. Yeah... sure... Would you accept this statement from a white supremacist? Again, we need consistent rules against racism. Otherwise you're opening the door to racists and extremists on both sides.
jancsika 6y ago
> It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Disgusted sure, I am with you on that. But "can still exist?" With the number of stories just on HN about social media dark patterns and recommendation engine rabbit-holes? It's difficult to understand that as anything other than puffery.
- ASalazarMX 6y ago
  I expect some people will do horrible things for personal gain, we all are egoists to a degree after all. What I have a hard time digesting is the irrationality of racism: why not pursue material instead of imaginary gain? Racism is more crazy religion than ideology.
LatteLazy 6y ago
If people can't (won't) compete by being smarter, working harder, taking long term views, innovating, up skilling etc, they fall back on "but I'm white". That's all this really is. The economy has moved forwards. People either moved to cities and upskilled (hence the hate for a mysterious metropolitan "elite") or they sat in rust belt towns complaining their disability cheque is late again and worrying someone poorer than them might get the money instead. That's Trumps whole platform really. That's where the racism fits in. That is all the bs about draining swamps and elites. That's "make America great again". That's rolling back climate change rules (even the tiny ones the US actually has). Bolt on anti-abortion single issue voters and tax cuts for trillionaires to keep the senate on side. This whole thing is what happens when you have 25 years of social and economic progress and people get left behind and refuse to make any effort to catch up...
- TheTacoMerchant 6y ago
  Is it not possible for people to remain in small communities and not be seen by you as "refusing to make any effort to catch up"? I'm not American, so if I can offer ab outise perspective it's this: Trumps base was/is made up of majority poor white rural Americans, with a coalition of racists and extremists bolted on. What's crucial in that is the majority are just poor white townspeople. They lost their jobs because overseas laborers are willing to do the same work for less; because consumers don't care if the latest iPhone is made in Cali or in some Chinese interment camp. Same thing for coal and oil jobs. The world changed and these are the people who lost their livelihoods for it. I've been watching American politics my whole life, and Trump was the first politician I saw to truly acknowledge that there is a large portion of the population that are suffering economically for things out of their control and told them it wasn't their fault.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    Some People can stay local and retrain and do something, good luck to them! Leaving aside fault for the moment... The jobs are gone. So we have a few options: * people can do what I said, retrain, maybe move, do something else * people can do nothing and get benefits to sit there doing nothing. I don't think there is a third option, but let me know if I'm missing something? The issue is, 80% of people refuse to the first one. They sit in rust belt towns and die deaths of despair. So what do we do? Trumps solution, which they have chosen, is nothing. We do nothing. No healthcare for them, no improved benefits, no retraining. Since they chose that, I could live with it. But I don't want to be tied to them and live with the rest of the shitty things trump wants to do. I'm more than happy to hear a solution here. I've tried not to blame anyone. I honestly believe that it wasn't their fault the coal mine (etc) closed. I just don't see an option beyond waiting for them to die before we can progress economically or socially. And that's not really acceptable to me. I'm gay, and I don't think I should be forced to be a second class citizen just because other people are bitter about their life and voted for a Fuck Everyone candidate. I'm sure there are women who will want reproductive health rights that feel the same way. I'm sympathetic, I came from just suck a place. But there does come a point where I feel like saying "you're not dragging me down with you". Full disclosure: I'm actually a brit. But we have the exact same thing happening here. Only its Boris Johnson and Brexit (which will last much longer than trumpism). I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

mothsonasloth 6y ago

>It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. What a snobbish and elitist thing to say. Try saying that to the Sentinelese or Amazonian tribes that still don't have contact with our messed up globalist world. One of the reasons we are living in this chaotic time is because of a growing middle class elite living in metropolitan areas who are either unwilling or incapable of understanding people outside of their bubbles.

llamaz 6y ago
there's a few gradations of difference between Trump voters and neo-Nazis... parent is talking about the latter
x1ph0z 6y ago
well when some people are resorting to white supremacy, of course it's a big social gap that reasonable people don't want to understand.
exclusiv 6y ago
I don't think the parent meant any disparagement to actual primitive tribes. Why did you assume that?
- jariel 6y ago
  "I don't think the parent meant any disparagement to actual primitive tribes. Why did you assume that?" Because all of these statements of ethnicity have to be contextualized. You can't just say 'Well White this, Black that' - other than in a very American context. I live in Quebec and they are essentially the only classical, coherent 'ethnic group' (i.e. language, governance) in North America aside from Aboriginals - and due to the fact they are surrounded by the 'Angloshphere' there is a very legit concern about the erosion of their culture. New migrants basically don't want to learn French, and more and more English language 'everything' encroaches on the culture. Now - some Pro-Quebec sentiment is really ridiculous, racist, over the top and frankly dumb (they want to ban 'Staples' from being called 'Staples' because it's English) but there is an underlying legitimacy. Unspoken in all of this is that Quebec culture is defacto European and essentially (though not technically) White. Also of interesting note that intellectually it's super-secular (they don't like their Catholic past) at the same time, culturally, kind of super Catholic. Point being: there are calls for the 'saving of our culture' basically daily. It's part of the program here and it's not overtly racist or radical. My MP (like Congressperson) is form 'Quebec Solidaire' and it's the very farthest Left group in North America it actually has roots in a former Communist part. (I didn't vote for them!) - but - they are equally Nationalist! They walk a tight intellectual line with justifying their Nationalism on a 'racially inclusive' basis, even though their ideology is at the same time very exclusive to outsiders, who happen to be Anglophones ... and people of colour. In the face of Globalism 'We Are All Aboriginals' - which is to say every single culture save maybe Han Chinese is under the threat of being 'globalized' in a kind of Anglo-American hot-mess of commercialism. So yes, it's not the same thing for some French guy to be saying such things as it is for someone from the disappearing Tribes of the Amazon, but this isn't the 20th century anymore, the fault lines are changing quickly and context is really important.
  - exclusiv 6y ago
    > Because all of these statements of ethnicity have to be contextualized. I don't see how it wasn't contexualized? They were responding to the Fourteen Words racist trash.
ASalazarMX 6y ago
Maybe it will sound less snobbish (although more self-serving I fear) if I tell you I'm Mexican? Mexico is a mixed race country, you will find people of all colors here, the concept of race is so weak common people are barely aware of it. There are racists who see whiter people as more beautiful, or darker (specially indigenous) people as lesser, but hate is extremely rare and frowned upon. It's the hate part that I can't wrap my head around. Xenophobic tribes maybe hate visitors for their race, but they also could reject them for their effect in neighboring tribes, we don't know. TL;DR: I can understand if people find Scottish people attractive, or Mexican people ugly, but I am indeed guilty of not understanding how people can actually grow hate from that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

lamename 6y ago

It's a reminder of how ancient our brains really are, despite our advancement of the average state of society as a whole.

nostromo 6y ago

I present to you the words of Kristen Clarke, Biden’s future head of the DoJ’s Civil Rights division: “Melanin endows blacks with greater mental, physical, and spiritual abilities — something which cannot be measured by Eurocentric standards.” This is just one quote from her letter, which goes on at length about black superiority. I think the problem we have right now is we have two sets of standards. People that have been reintroducing racist concepts into government, academia and the media shouldn’t be surprised when there is a similarly racist backlash. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/11/4/clarke-should-retract-statements-pbtbwo-years/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/11/4/clarke-should-r...

hwillis 6y ago
> The book, she said, “was generating wide acclaim for its racist views” and her intention in opening the letter “with an absurd claim that Black people are superior based on the melanin in their skin” was to “hold up a mirror to reflect how reprehensible the premise of black inferiority was set.” > “It was meant to express an equally absurd point of view — fighting one ridiculous absurd racist theory with another ridiculous absurd theory,” Clarke explained, “and the goal was all about [exposing] the ugly racist underpinnings of the Bell Curve theory. It was deeply personal and profoundly important to Black students and other students of color who felt that their right to be on campus was challenged. And frankly, the fight that we were leading as students is a fight that I am still very much a part of today.” https://forward.com/news/national/462089/bidens-deputy-ag-pick-touts-record-on-antisemitism-amid-criticism-of/ https://forward.com/news/national/462089/bidens-deputy-ag-pi... The full letter certainly seems consistent with that: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/10/28/blacks-seek-an-end-to-abuse/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/10/28/blacks-seek-an...
- nostromo 6y ago
  So she sets the record straight over 20 years later, only after being appointed by Biden, that she was only pretending to be racist. Yeah... sure... Would you accept this statement from a white supremacist? Again, we need consistent rules against racism. Otherwise you're opening the door to racists and extremists on both sides.

jancsika 6y ago

> It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Disgusted sure, I am with you on that. But "can still exist?" With the number of stories just on HN about social media dark patterns and recommendation engine rabbit-holes? It's difficult to understand that as anything other than puffery.

ASalazarMX 6y ago
I expect some people will do horrible things for personal gain, we all are egoists to a degree after all. What I have a hard time digesting is the irrationality of racism: why not pursue material instead of imaginary gain? Racism is more crazy religion than ideology.

LatteLazy 6y ago

If people can't (won't) compete by being smarter, working harder, taking long term views, innovating, up skilling etc, they fall back on "but I'm white". That's all this really is. The economy has moved forwards. People either moved to cities and upskilled (hence the hate for a mysterious metropolitan "elite") or they sat in rust belt towns complaining their disability cheque is late again and worrying someone poorer than them might get the money instead. That's Trumps whole platform really. That's where the racism fits in. That is all the bs about draining swamps and elites. That's "make America great again". That's rolling back climate change rules (even the tiny ones the US actually has). Bolt on anti-abortion single issue voters and tax cuts for trillionaires to keep the senate on side. This whole thing is what happens when you have 25 years of social and economic progress and people get left behind and refuse to make any effort to catch up...

TheTacoMerchant 6y ago
Is it not possible for people to remain in small communities and not be seen by you as "refusing to make any effort to catch up"? I'm not American, so if I can offer ab outise perspective it's this: Trumps base was/is made up of majority poor white rural Americans, with a coalition of racists and extremists bolted on. What's crucial in that is the majority are just poor white townspeople. They lost their jobs because overseas laborers are willing to do the same work for less; because consumers don't care if the latest iPhone is made in Cali or in some Chinese interment camp. Same thing for coal and oil jobs. The world changed and these are the people who lost their livelihoods for it. I've been watching American politics my whole life, and Trump was the first politician I saw to truly acknowledge that there is a large portion of the population that are suffering economically for things out of their control and told them it wasn't their fault.
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  Some People can stay local and retrain and do something, good luck to them! Leaving aside fault for the moment... The jobs are gone. So we have a few options: * people can do what I said, retrain, maybe move, do something else * people can do nothing and get benefits to sit there doing nothing. I don't think there is a third option, but let me know if I'm missing something? The issue is, 80% of people refuse to the first one. They sit in rust belt towns and die deaths of despair. So what do we do? Trumps solution, which they have chosen, is nothing. We do nothing. No healthcare for them, no improved benefits, no retraining. Since they chose that, I could live with it. But I don't want to be tied to them and live with the rest of the shitty things trump wants to do. I'm more than happy to hear a solution here. I've tried not to blame anyone. I honestly believe that it wasn't their fault the coal mine (etc) closed. I just don't see an option beyond waiting for them to die before we can progress economically or socially. And that's not really acceptable to me. I'm gay, and I don't think I should be forced to be a second class citizen just because other people are bitter about their life and voted for a Fuck Everyone candidate. I'm sure there are women who will want reproductive health rights that feel the same way. I'm sympathetic, I came from just suck a place. But there does come a point where I feel like saying "you're not dragging me down with you". Full disclosure: I'm actually a brit. But we have the exact same thing happening here. Only its Boris Johnson and Brexit (which will last much longer than trumpism). I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.