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I'm not sure of the point here, this seems a bit nonsensical. Do you avoid using cash too because criminals use it? Using or accepting Bitcoin is not dangerous

I'm not sure of the point here, this seems a bit nonsensical. Do you avoid using cash too because criminals use it? Using or accepting Bitcoin is not dangerous because of this. And you have no more chance of unintentionally recieving funds linked to this than you have of unintentionally recieving cash used for criminal purposes. (Not intending to start an argument for or against Bitcoin, and there are other pros and cons of it I'm sure, but this particular one is not really valid)

ajkdhcb2 6y ago
Cash is private so it doesn't matter. When you pay with it, nobody knows where it came from. You can have extreme inconvenience for being linked to illegal bitcoin transactions.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  Eh, I usually don't like comparing bitcoin to cash, but you can be inconvenienced with cash as well. I had a roommate who had >$100K tied up into an online poker platform, which was frozen for months because the platform was doing some illegal activity.
  - smcl 6y ago
    That's not quite "cash"
- SimonPStevens 6y ago
  Cash is only private if you never put it in a bank. But if the reason for taking the payment is legitimate you're going to have no more problems with Bitcoin than you will with cash in this regard. If your reason for taking the payment is illegal then I agree, Bitcoin puts you at some greater risk. But if that's you're point then perhaps you should be clearer. Bitcoin can be dangerous to use for criminals because it's more traceable. If your use is legal, it's no more or less dangerous than cash.
  - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
    >But if the reason for taking the payment is legitimate you're going to have no more problems with Bitcoin than you will with cash in this regard. Nope. You may deposit cash into a bank and explain where it came from. Sure. This has no relevance to how you can later try to spend your bitcoin and have your transaction frozen + end up in a police investigation where you need to try to explain why chainalysis software says you are linked to terrorism, to people who have no understanding of it. This can be especially bad if you are not in a developed country. It simply means bitcoin is not usable as a "peer to peer cash" as it was intended. With cash you will not have such problem because it has no history permanently linked to it.
    - frenchy 6y ago
      You're sort of right, but I don't think I'd any less terrified to have a surprise 1,000,000 dollars arrive in a parcel in my mailbox, than to have the same surprise in my bitcoin account. That said, I'm not in the position where I have much to fear from the police/government. If I did, that would be different.
    - SimonPStevens 6y ago
      We'll have to just agree to disagree on this. I don't believe that having bitcoin that was in the past involved in criminal use will cause you any problems at all. I'd be interested to see any evidence you have to the contrary. Something I think people confuse is the concept of 'a bitcoin'. There is no thing that is transferred around like a physical coin or note. A bitcoin 'transfer' is just a change in the balance of two accounts, not an actual transfer of anything physical or digital. There is no change of ownership of anything.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
pydry 6y ago
>Do you avoid using cash too because criminals use it? I probably would if cash were only used by criminals and speculators.
- CivBase 6y ago
  Many legitimate uses of BTC have been accounted for. Are torrents also bad because pirates often use it?
  - gretch 6y ago
    This is not a discussion of protocols, it's a discussion of being associated with known bad actors. Suppose that I have a history of doing semi-illegal things and that my wallet is publicly associated with real personhood. Example. gretch = id 1234; buys drugs which are legal in country x and highly illegal elsewhere Now one day I come to your completely legal business and make a completely legal transaction Example. I come to your bakery and get my wedding catered Now you just received a lot of money from an account which is on several bad actor lists and you have to explain what happened. Okay, you can try to explain that the services rendered were completely legitimate; hopefully the investigators will believe you because that's what all money launderers try to do. Alternatively, you as the caterer need to research the actor behind incoming transaction for your innocuous service.
  - pydry 6y ago
    Apart from speculation? Like what? It's only really useful for forex if you're avoiding currency controls, for instance. Torrents are routinely used for distributing Linux isos.
kls 6y ago
I agree here, he could have just as easily mailed them cash. Pretty much the same result.

ajkdhcb2 6y ago

Cash is private so it doesn't matter. When you pay with it, nobody knows where it came from. You can have extreme inconvenience for being linked to illegal bitcoin transactions.

three_seagrass 6y ago
Eh, I usually don't like comparing bitcoin to cash, but you can be inconvenienced with cash as well. I had a roommate who had >$100K tied up into an online poker platform, which was frozen for months because the platform was doing some illegal activity.
- smcl 6y ago
  That's not quite "cash"
SimonPStevens 6y ago
Cash is only private if you never put it in a bank. But if the reason for taking the payment is legitimate you're going to have no more problems with Bitcoin than you will with cash in this regard. If your reason for taking the payment is illegal then I agree, Bitcoin puts you at some greater risk. But if that's you're point then perhaps you should be clearer. Bitcoin can be dangerous to use for criminals because it's more traceable. If your use is legal, it's no more or less dangerous than cash.
- ajkdhcb2 6y ago
  >But if the reason for taking the payment is legitimate you're going to have no more problems with Bitcoin than you will with cash in this regard. Nope. You may deposit cash into a bank and explain where it came from. Sure. This has no relevance to how you can later try to spend your bitcoin and have your transaction frozen + end up in a police investigation where you need to try to explain why chainalysis software says you are linked to terrorism, to people who have no understanding of it. This can be especially bad if you are not in a developed country. It simply means bitcoin is not usable as a "peer to peer cash" as it was intended. With cash you will not have such problem because it has no history permanently linked to it.
  - frenchy 6y ago
    You're sort of right, but I don't think I'd any less terrified to have a surprise 1,000,000 dollars arrive in a parcel in my mailbox, than to have the same surprise in my bitcoin account. That said, I'm not in the position where I have much to fear from the police/government. If I did, that would be different.
  - SimonPStevens 6y ago
    We'll have to just agree to disagree on this. I don't believe that having bitcoin that was in the past involved in criminal use will cause you any problems at all. I'd be interested to see any evidence you have to the contrary. Something I think people confuse is the concept of 'a bitcoin'. There is no thing that is transferred around like a physical coin or note. A bitcoin 'transfer' is just a change in the balance of two accounts, not an actual transfer of anything physical or digital. There is no change of ownership of anything.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

pydry 6y ago

>Do you avoid using cash too because criminals use it? I probably would if cash were only used by criminals and speculators.

CivBase 6y ago
Many legitimate uses of BTC have been accounted for. Are torrents also bad because pirates often use it?
- gretch 6y ago
  This is not a discussion of protocols, it's a discussion of being associated with known bad actors. Suppose that I have a history of doing semi-illegal things and that my wallet is publicly associated with real personhood. Example. gretch = id 1234; buys drugs which are legal in country x and highly illegal elsewhere Now one day I come to your completely legal business and make a completely legal transaction Example. I come to your bakery and get my wedding catered Now you just received a lot of money from an account which is on several bad actor lists and you have to explain what happened. Okay, you can try to explain that the services rendered were completely legitimate; hopefully the investigators will believe you because that's what all money launderers try to do. Alternatively, you as the caterer need to research the actor behind incoming transaction for your innocuous service.
- pydry 6y ago
  Apart from speculation? Like what? It's only really useful for forex if you're avoiding currency controls, for instance. Torrents are routinely used for distributing Linux isos.

kls 6y ago

I agree here, he could have just as easily mailed them cash. Pretty much the same result.