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> Japan's rent-a-family industry was completely fake That's really not what that article is claiming. It's claiming that a particular individual has lied about

by jogu 6y ago

> Japan's rent-a-family industry was completely fake That's really not what that article is claiming. It's claiming that a particular individual has lied about the industry and made it seem stranger than it actually is and the western media has sensationalized that even further. There absolutely are rental services for boyfriends, girlfriends, mothers, fathers, etc. in Japan, they're just not as bizarre as some of these articles would lead you to believe.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Girlfriend experience-escorts are also not that uncommon outside of Japan. Bars where one buys a good conversation along with the meal, cafés where the waiters roleplay as one's doting sibling, renting a parent, used underwear from vending machines, maid cafés, maid cafés where the maids are all cross-dressing males, cafés where the attractive male waiters make out with each other for the viewing pleasure of the customer base, cafés where the attractive female waiters wear no underwear, short skirts, and the floors are mirrored — well, that's the joie de vivre that has a big “only in Japan” sticker on it. The second place with distance is the U.S.A. that at least has cafés where the attractive female waiters wear skimpy outfits, cheerleaders, and bikini car wash — but the rest of the world that has nothing that comes close to this well-inspired madness.
- michaelpb 6y ago
  That's not true. Cafes that cater to lonely straight men or misogynistic businessmen exist worldwide. Just one example: All the different "café con piernas" cafes in Chile, which are very similar to Japanese maid cafes.
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    How is that similar to maid cafés, let alone cafés where the waiters act as if they be one's doting sibling? You seem to have reduced my rather wild and spectacular examples to something so mundane as: “Cafes that cater to lonely straight men or misogynistic businessmen exist”, especially when most of my examples have nothing to do with “straight men” or “misogynistic businessmen”.
    - michaelpb 6y ago
      I don't know if there exists a cafe with a "sibling theme", but café con piernas is pretty similar in the other respects. There are a variety of different establishments where clientele are served coffee and pastries by women in revealing outfits, ranging from traditional outfits in short-skirts, to much more revealing costumes (often with partial nudity). All I was saying is that businesses that follow the model of "cafe, but also sex work" are world-wide, not just Japan and the US.
- glandium 6y ago
  Note: for many of the "weird" things you list, there's _one_ place doing it, not several, like the use of plural may suggest (AFAIK).
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    Such as which example? I have knowledge of the existence of multiple in almost all of what I listed.
    - glandium 6y ago
      Used underwear vending machine, last I heard, there's only one. Yaoi cafe, AFAIK, there's only one. And I would be surprised if there's more than one cafe with the glass floor and no underwear.
      - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
        Well, you seem to be wrong about all three: https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro/article-a0003600/ https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro... This article reviews three different boy's love cafés, in close proximity to one another. I'm not sure how derive the conclusion that there is only one used underwear vending machine; a simple image search reveals many different models: https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines-fact-fiction https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines... This article concludes that the most extreme stories about one at every corner are an exaggeration, but one can definitely find them. As for the cafés without underwear: there is definitely more than one, though they've been on a decline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
        glandium 6y ago
        > https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro/article-a0003600/ https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro... Of the 3, only the first one is overtly Yaoi. I don't know the second one, but it doesn't seem like one, and the Butler cafe is definitely not Yaoi. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa After the boom in the 80s (30+ years ago), are there really any left, with the glass floor and everything?
- el_dev_hell 6y ago
  > but the rest of the world that has nothing that comes close to this well-inspired madness. I raise you the slightly hidden world of "tits on toast" from Australia. In regional cities/towns, you can go to certain local pubs early in the day (10AM - 12PM) and get a cheap breakfast served by topless waitresses. If the waitresses get enough tips, they allegedly remove everything. The breakfast is usually terrible (cold canned beans on toast with an egg).
  - eplanit 6y ago
    In Fort Lauderdale, Florida (of course), there was a place named "R Donuts" with topless waitresses.[1] [1] https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/11/27/Topless-doughnut-shop-opens/3354501915600/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/11/27/Topless-doughnut-sho...
    - nickik 6y ago
      > Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! Spends considerable time in a topless pancake restaurant if I remember correctly.
  - BelenusMordred 6y ago
    > In regional cities/towns In certain areas yeah, but painting all the regions with that brush is strange. Most of the country couldn't handle anything of the sort and the place would be raided by the police in a day. Despite how many pretend play it up to be, Australia is an incredibly conservative country. The stuff you'll find in mining towns is far worse and basically the wild west. Barstaff will pour you out a beer using their bare asscheeks for a tip. Always wondered what the health authorities think of that.
exclusiv 6y ago
Separately, I've heard personal reports and seen a documentary about young Japanese men in general. It was said that their mothers do everything for them and for a much longer time than other countries. Is this true?
- shagie 6y ago
  The word you are looking at is "amae" ... along with a large amount of material about it (and how it is interpreted and how it is misinterpreted). The classic book on the subject is "The Anatomy of Dependence" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence The gist of this is that the parent-child relationship is the ideal one and that extends into the relationships in a collectivist society including that of a manager to an employee. And so the doting mother to her child... extends a bit longer. The doting mother part isn't new - but rather that that relationship is seen as the ideal one... gets into cultural comparisons. ... but that's the word that can set you on the search for understanding of that phenomena.
- pezezin 6y ago
  Disclaimer: I have been living in Japan for two years, but I'm nowhere an expert in their culture. Some of my female coworkers have confirmed this to be true. They say younger guys have problems finding a girlfriend, because they expect her to take care of him the same way his mother did, and younger Japanese women don't want to put up with that kind of attitude anymore. Regarding social development, my feeling is that Japan is one or two generations behind Western countries.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Also not an expert, but it seems to exist in culture overall. You can see reflection in movies, (where it's not the main topic) for example in "Tokyo Family" (2013) you'll see that when his wife dies, an older, physically capable man starts getting his cooked meals provided by neighbours like it's obvious that happens now.
  - 1propionyl 6y ago
    > They say younger guys have problems finding a girlfriend, because they expect her to take care of him the same way his mother did, and younger Japanese women don't want to put up with that kind of attitude anymore. This is rampantly common in (esp. Southern) Europe as well. The stereotype of the Italian or Greek "mama's boy" who can't do anything around the house and expects their SO to be their surrogate mother is very real. I really don't think you should be using this as evidence to paint Japan as developmentally retarded as compared to "Western" countries. Respectfully, it comes off as parochial if I'm being charitable, or as working backwards from a desired conclusion if I'm not. Moreover, this is a trend that crops up all around the world, not just in Japan or Europe. There are plenty of people like this in the US as well. I've met several grown men with well paying jobs who eat out for every meal and have their mothers do their laundry every weekend.

by jogu 6y ago

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

Girlfriend experience-escorts are also not that uncommon outside of Japan. Bars where one buys a good conversation along with the meal, cafés where the waiters roleplay as one's doting sibling, renting a parent, used underwear from vending machines, maid cafés, maid cafés where the maids are all cross-dressing males, cafés where the attractive male waiters make out with each other for the viewing pleasure of the customer base, cafés where the attractive female waiters wear no underwear, short skirts, and the floors are mirrored — well, that's the joie de vivre that has a big “only in Japan” sticker on it. The second place with distance is the U.S.A. that at least has cafés where the attractive female waiters wear skimpy outfits, cheerleaders, and bikini car wash — but the rest of the world that has nothing that comes close to this well-inspired madness.

michaelpb 6y ago
That's not true. Cafes that cater to lonely straight men or misogynistic businessmen exist worldwide. Just one example: All the different "café con piernas" cafes in Chile, which are very similar to Japanese maid cafes.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  How is that similar to maid cafés, let alone cafés where the waiters act as if they be one's doting sibling? You seem to have reduced my rather wild and spectacular examples to something so mundane as: “Cafes that cater to lonely straight men or misogynistic businessmen exist”, especially when most of my examples have nothing to do with “straight men” or “misogynistic businessmen”.
  - michaelpb 6y ago
    I don't know if there exists a cafe with a "sibling theme", but café con piernas is pretty similar in the other respects. There are a variety of different establishments where clientele are served coffee and pastries by women in revealing outfits, ranging from traditional outfits in short-skirts, to much more revealing costumes (often with partial nudity). All I was saying is that businesses that follow the model of "cafe, but also sex work" are world-wide, not just Japan and the US.
glandium 6y ago
Note: for many of the "weird" things you list, there's _one_ place doing it, not several, like the use of plural may suggest (AFAIK).
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  Such as which example? I have knowledge of the existence of multiple in almost all of what I listed.
  - glandium 6y ago
    Used underwear vending machine, last I heard, there's only one. Yaoi cafe, AFAIK, there's only one. And I would be surprised if there's more than one cafe with the glass floor and no underwear.
    - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
      Well, you seem to be wrong about all three: https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro/article-a0003600/ https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro... This article reviews three different boy's love cafés, in close proximity to one another. I'm not sure how derive the conclusion that there is only one used underwear vending machine; a simple image search reveals many different models: https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines-fact-fiction https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines... This article concludes that the most extreme stories about one at every corner are an exaggeration, but one can definitely find them. As for the cafés without underwear: there is definitely more than one, though they've been on a decline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
      - glandium 6y ago
        > https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro/article-a0003600/ https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-ikebukuro... Of the 3, only the first one is overtly Yaoi. I don't know the second one, but it doesn't seem like one, and the Butler cafe is definitely not Yaoi. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa After the boom in the 80s (30+ years ago), are there really any left, with the glass floor and everything?
el_dev_hell 6y ago
> but the rest of the world that has nothing that comes close to this well-inspired madness. I raise you the slightly hidden world of "tits on toast" from Australia. In regional cities/towns, you can go to certain local pubs early in the day (10AM - 12PM) and get a cheap breakfast served by topless waitresses. If the waitresses get enough tips, they allegedly remove everything. The breakfast is usually terrible (cold canned beans on toast with an egg).
- eplanit 6y ago
  In Fort Lauderdale, Florida (of course), there was a place named "R Donuts" with topless waitresses.[1] [1] https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/11/27/Topless-doughnut-shop-opens/3354501915600/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/11/27/Topless-doughnut-sho...
  - nickik 6y ago
    > Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! Spends considerable time in a topless pancake restaurant if I remember correctly.
- BelenusMordred 6y ago
  > In regional cities/towns In certain areas yeah, but painting all the regions with that brush is strange. Most of the country couldn't handle anything of the sort and the place would be raided by the police in a day. Despite how many pretend play it up to be, Australia is an incredibly conservative country. The stuff you'll find in mining towns is far worse and basically the wild west. Barstaff will pour you out a beer using their bare asscheeks for a tip. Always wondered what the health authorities think of that.

exclusiv 6y ago

Separately, I've heard personal reports and seen a documentary about young Japanese men in general. It was said that their mothers do everything for them and for a much longer time than other countries. Is this true?

shagie 6y ago
The word you are looking at is "amae" ... along with a large amount of material about it (and how it is interpreted and how it is misinterpreted). The classic book on the subject is "The Anatomy of Dependence" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence The gist of this is that the parent-child relationship is the ideal one and that extends into the relationships in a collectivist society including that of a manager to an employee. And so the doting mother to her child... extends a bit longer. The doting mother part isn't new - but rather that that relationship is seen as the ideal one... gets into cultural comparisons. ... but that's the word that can set you on the search for understanding of that phenomena.
pezezin 6y ago
Disclaimer: I have been living in Japan for two years, but I'm nowhere an expert in their culture. Some of my female coworkers have confirmed this to be true. They say younger guys have problems finding a girlfriend, because they expect her to take care of him the same way his mother did, and younger Japanese women don't want to put up with that kind of attitude anymore. Regarding social development, my feeling is that Japan is one or two generations behind Western countries.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Also not an expert, but it seems to exist in culture overall. You can see reflection in movies, (where it's not the main topic) for example in "Tokyo Family" (2013) you'll see that when his wife dies, an older, physically capable man starts getting his cooked meals provided by neighbours like it's obvious that happens now.
- 1propionyl 6y ago
  > They say younger guys have problems finding a girlfriend, because they expect her to take care of him the same way his mother did, and younger Japanese women don't want to put up with that kind of attitude anymore. This is rampantly common in (esp. Southern) Europe as well. The stereotype of the Italian or Greek "mama's boy" who can't do anything around the house and expects their SO to be their surrogate mother is very real. I really don't think you should be using this as evidence to paint Japan as developmentally retarded as compared to "Western" countries. Respectfully, it comes off as parochial if I'm being charitable, or as working backwards from a desired conclusion if I'm not. Moreover, this is a trend that crops up all around the world, not just in Japan or Europe. There are plenty of people like this in the US as well. I've met several grown men with well paying jobs who eat out for every meal and have their mothers do their laundry every weekend.