26 ms·

PG: Twitter made a mistake in banning Sci-Hub

115 points by breck 6y ago

ars 6y ago
A mistake as in it's not something that should be banned? Or a mistake as in now people will realize that giving Twitter power over what you can and can't say [in public] online might be problematic?
myWindoonn 6y ago
Hm, but what are the actual changes that PG suggests? For example, would PG suggest changing HN's rules so that Sci-Hub is a first-class source of articles? This very submission notes that it is not just from "twitter.com", but from "twitter.com/paulg", so there's no technical obstacle to this functionality. Similarly, would PG suggest changing HN's rules so that links to paywalled sites are automatically replaced with links to unpaywalled versions? FWIW I am in favor of all of this, but I am not really sure that PG actually wants to follow through; rather, this is a bland partisan position statement meant to allow PG to say in the future that they have always been a big supporter of Sci-Hub.
- jolmg 6y ago
  > This very submission notes that it is not just from "twitter.com", but from "twitter.com/paulg", That's not because it's PG. The change was made relatively recently to include usernames for some sites, I think github too. Otherwise "twitter.com" is too uninformative. Here's the announcement for that feature: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754456
  - myWindoonn 6y ago
    Yes, you're correct. What I should have said is that, since we can do special things for twitter.com, we should be able to do special things for URLs which point to Sci-Hub. I don't know at which point things become legally uncomfortable, but it currently only takes three clicks to turn a DOI into a Sci-Hub link even without HN's assistance.
    - jolmg 6y ago
      > I don't know at which point things become legally uncomfortable, I think that's at the point that HN does special accommodations for the use of Sci-Hub. Converting links to unpaywalled versions would be the same. I don't follow PG, so I might be wrong, but consider that this tweet is very terse. I think one can't extrapolate much from it.
fjabre 6y ago
I agree with PG. Twitter could've taken a stand. But as it seems now they are too mired in partisan politics and grandstanding to pay any attention to other news. I think Jack Dorsey should step down. Twitter has become a magnet for trolls with an axe to grind. He inserted himself far too much in the politics of the day and got just what he wanted it seems. What a negative and dark place Twitter has become.
- paxys 6y ago
  I agree that Dorsey should step down, but not for that reason. Twitter has been in the very center of the political and media zeitgeist worldwide for the last decade – and there's nothing wrong with that – but they still haven't managed to convert that into a sustainable business.
  - suyash 6y ago
    Jack and Zuckerberg both need to be fired, worse kind of leaders. These places that were supposed to be platforms for open discussions are now mired in politics.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Why isn't it a sustainable business?
  - mikeyouse 6y ago
    It's a free product with a $40 billion market cap (up 150% in the past 5 years), earning over $1 billion/year in net income -- in what universe isn't that sustainable?
    - totalZero 6y ago
      On what planet does stock appreciation demonstrate a sustainable business model? Trump leaving Twitter (or rather, having the microphone yanked out of his tiny hands) is going to impact the engagement that the platform facilitates. It remains to be seen what that impact will be, but I don't see how it can be positive. Section 230 has been criticized from both sides of the aisle -- including by the President-Elect [0]. Without that protection, Twitter would almost certainly have to spend more on moderation, or worse yet, cull the flock of troll and bot accounts and take a MAU hit. Oh, and BTW -- it's a $36B market cap this week. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070403/joe-biden-president-election-section-230-communications-decency-act-revoke https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070403/joe-biden-presid...
bachmeier 6y ago
There's no substance to the tweet. It wouldn't appear on HN except for the person that posted it. It's hard to see how something like this is going to generate useful discussion.
- breck 6y ago
  Exactly. Reminds me of “Tear down this wall”. Nothing came of that. /s
  - minimaxir 6y ago
    Comparing the banning of a Twitter account to the fall of the Berlin Wall is one hell of a false equivalency.
    - breck 6y ago
      I think you missed my point. It's time to #AbolishCopyright and #AbolishPatents. Tear down the walls that keep information in the hands of the 1% and keep the masses in the dark. (Speaking as someone who could live quite comfortably in the 1% but doesn't feel it is right)
      - mikestew 6y ago
        You quote one of Ronald Reagan's most famous lines, and you're telling the reader they missed your point if they didn't take it to be about copyright? Did I miss the real "/s"?
        breck 6y ago
        > You quote one of Ronald Reagan's most famous lines, and you're telling the reader they missed your point if they didn't take it to be about copyright? Did I miss the real "/s"? The OP wasn't paying attention to important context. It would be like if someone at Reagan's speech said, "There's no substance to that line. It wouldn't have been on TV except for the person who said it. It's hard to see how something like this is going to generate useful discussion. Is it the color of the wall or the dimensions of the wall that he has a problem with?" PG, a man with a huge reach, nothing to gain (and a lot to lose) from taking a stand on such a controversial issue that the public is far from knowing what the just side is, who doesn't mince words and thinks deeply about topics until he arrives at the truth, just came out and stated his support for Sci-Hub. Beyond the practical matter that he is at least an acquaintence of @jack's, perhaps even a friend (I have no knowledge of their relationship, other than I had a YC dinner a long time ago with them), and this might lead to @Sci_hub's reinstatement, it is an inspirational message for those of us who are fighting so that every child has access to the world's best information. YMMV, but I personally would consider the abolition of copyrights and patents to be bigger than the reunification of Germany in the long run. Context matters. The substance is deep.
amrrs 6y ago
Another relevant thread on Sci-Hub Twitter Ban https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25779367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25779367

115 points by breck 6y ago

ars 6y ago

A mistake as in it's not something that should be banned? Or a mistake as in now people will realize that giving Twitter power over what you can and can't say [in public] online might be problematic?

myWindoonn 6y ago

Hm, but what are the actual changes that PG suggests? For example, would PG suggest changing HN's rules so that Sci-Hub is a first-class source of articles? This very submission notes that it is not just from "twitter.com", but from "twitter.com/paulg", so there's no technical obstacle to this functionality. Similarly, would PG suggest changing HN's rules so that links to paywalled sites are automatically replaced with links to unpaywalled versions? FWIW I am in favor of all of this, but I am not really sure that PG actually wants to follow through; rather, this is a bland partisan position statement meant to allow PG to say in the future that they have always been a big supporter of Sci-Hub.

jolmg 6y ago
> This very submission notes that it is not just from "twitter.com", but from "twitter.com/paulg", That's not because it's PG. The change was made relatively recently to include usernames for some sites, I think github too. Otherwise "twitter.com" is too uninformative. Here's the announcement for that feature: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754456
- myWindoonn 6y ago
  Yes, you're correct. What I should have said is that, since we can do special things for twitter.com, we should be able to do special things for URLs which point to Sci-Hub. I don't know at which point things become legally uncomfortable, but it currently only takes three clicks to turn a DOI into a Sci-Hub link even without HN's assistance.
  - jolmg 6y ago
    > I don't know at which point things become legally uncomfortable, I think that's at the point that HN does special accommodations for the use of Sci-Hub. Converting links to unpaywalled versions would be the same. I don't follow PG, so I might be wrong, but consider that this tweet is very terse. I think one can't extrapolate much from it.

fjabre 6y ago

I agree with PG. Twitter could've taken a stand. But as it seems now they are too mired in partisan politics and grandstanding to pay any attention to other news. I think Jack Dorsey should step down. Twitter has become a magnet for trolls with an axe to grind. He inserted himself far too much in the politics of the day and got just what he wanted it seems. What a negative and dark place Twitter has become.

paxys 6y ago
I agree that Dorsey should step down, but not for that reason. Twitter has been in the very center of the political and media zeitgeist worldwide for the last decade – and there's nothing wrong with that – but they still haven't managed to convert that into a sustainable business.
- suyash 6y ago
  Jack and Zuckerberg both need to be fired, worse kind of leaders. These places that were supposed to be platforms for open discussions are now mired in politics.
- criddell 6y ago
  Why isn't it a sustainable business?
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  It's a free product with a $40 billion market cap (up 150% in the past 5 years), earning over $1 billion/year in net income -- in what universe isn't that sustainable?
  - totalZero 6y ago
    On what planet does stock appreciation demonstrate a sustainable business model? Trump leaving Twitter (or rather, having the microphone yanked out of his tiny hands) is going to impact the engagement that the platform facilitates. It remains to be seen what that impact will be, but I don't see how it can be positive. Section 230 has been criticized from both sides of the aisle -- including by the President-Elect [0]. Without that protection, Twitter would almost certainly have to spend more on moderation, or worse yet, cull the flock of troll and bot accounts and take a MAU hit. Oh, and BTW -- it's a $36B market cap this week. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070403/joe-biden-president-election-section-230-communications-decency-act-revoke https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070403/joe-biden-presid...

bachmeier 6y ago

There's no substance to the tweet. It wouldn't appear on HN except for the person that posted it. It's hard to see how something like this is going to generate useful discussion.

breck 6y ago
Exactly. Reminds me of “Tear down this wall”. Nothing came of that. /s
- minimaxir 6y ago
  Comparing the banning of a Twitter account to the fall of the Berlin Wall is one hell of a false equivalency.
  - breck 6y ago
    I think you missed my point. It's time to #AbolishCopyright and #AbolishPatents. Tear down the walls that keep information in the hands of the 1% and keep the masses in the dark. (Speaking as someone who could live quite comfortably in the 1% but doesn't feel it is right)
    - mikestew 6y ago
      You quote one of Ronald Reagan's most famous lines, and you're telling the reader they missed your point if they didn't take it to be about copyright? Did I miss the real "/s"?
      - breck 6y ago
        > You quote one of Ronald Reagan's most famous lines, and you're telling the reader they missed your point if they didn't take it to be about copyright? Did I miss the real "/s"? The OP wasn't paying attention to important context. It would be like if someone at Reagan's speech said, "There's no substance to that line. It wouldn't have been on TV except for the person who said it. It's hard to see how something like this is going to generate useful discussion. Is it the color of the wall or the dimensions of the wall that he has a problem with?" PG, a man with a huge reach, nothing to gain (and a lot to lose) from taking a stand on such a controversial issue that the public is far from knowing what the just side is, who doesn't mince words and thinks deeply about topics until he arrives at the truth, just came out and stated his support for Sci-Hub. Beyond the practical matter that he is at least an acquaintence of @jack's, perhaps even a friend (I have no knowledge of their relationship, other than I had a YC dinner a long time ago with them), and this might lead to @Sci_hub's reinstatement, it is an inspirational message for those of us who are fighting so that every child has access to the world's best information. YMMV, but I personally would consider the abolition of copyrights and patents to be bigger than the reunification of Germany in the long run. Context matters. The substance is deep.

amrrs 6y ago

Another relevant thread on Sci-Hub Twitter Ban https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25779367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25779367