26 ms·

Irrespective of Dorsey and Kap (really), can we all acknowledge that “foundations” or these non-profit entities run by the wealthy and politically entangled are

by aksss 6y ago

Irrespective of Dorsey and Kap (really), can we all acknowledge that “foundations” or these non-profit entities run by the wealthy and politically entangled are convenient vehicles of tax advantage, asset protection, and influence peddling? I’m not saying all are so let’s not get our knickers in a twist - there are plenty of altruistic non-profits out there, and many that only exist thanks to the wealthy. But the default reaction to large sums of money being given to a foundation named for a wealthy, politically entangled person or family should not be, “oh, it’s a non-profit, it’s helping the children”. More than likely it’s that person’s way of putting assets they enjoy daily into a trust to shelter it from taxation or legal seizure (think tax man or divorce court), to get monetary consideration for services rendered (foundation pays high salaries to family members or self while on payroll as nominal employees), and to accept gifts to support the above under cover of a donation. Write a check for a few worthy charitable operations, do some appearances, publish a few reports, and it’s a net positive legal financial strategy.

jariel 6y ago
So first - the donation has nothing to do with anything really, it's kind of a side issue. Second, this is not the kind of 'influence peddling' organization you are thinking of. These kinds of orgs. are 'influentially benign', this money is not going to change any votes. You're thinking more of Clinton Foundation or Koch Brothers. If you want to be cynical about it - then I suggest it's more to do with the fact that this 'charity' seems to be the 'Colin Kap Personal Brand Promotion Marketing Vehicle' in the sense it seems to be more about him than ostensibly the people he's trying to help. And of course 'how' he's trying to help seems a little vague. If this were something like 'support underproduction kids by helping them pay for tuition' that would be wonderful. But the real issue is ostensible hypocrisy in Twitter bans, and while I think there is a legit fine line, I don't think Twitter has crossed it. They can make the case for banning Trump and not Kap. Though maybe there's some other tweets they ought to delete as well. To his credit, Dorsey did indicate the difficult challenge in the decision and that this issue certainly is not over. There's a difference between calling for protest of authorities who have killed innocent people, possibly on the basis of racism vs. trying to stop the electoral process, which amounts to a de-facto coup. Those are worlds apart. Those who 'looted Target' I hope can face appropriate charges, those who materially were trying to stop the electoral process as well, and those will be 'much more relevant'.
- 99_00 6y ago
  >trying to stop the electoral process, which amounts to a de-facto coup. Trump followed the electoral process which allows for legal challenges and never called on anyone to do anything illegal.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Mafia bosses don't order someone killed either. Nevertheless, there was an insurrection on Capitol Hill whereby a few thousand people did overrun with the intent to stop the electoral process (and with a few others planning much worse). So it's established there was an insurrection in his name. Now: He called people to Capitol Hill from across the country specifically to protest the electoral validation. He publicly stated on many occasions - without factual evidence - that the election was stolen, giving his audience what they believed to be the credibility necessary to make very aggressively legitimate grievance. He condemned his on VP for failing in his duty (to commit sedition?) He called on protesters to 'fight fight fight' He called on them to commit 'political combat'. He called on them to 'walk down Pennsylvania Ave' with him. During the insurrection he didn't call in the National Guard, nor convene with Mike Pence, he wasn't publicly trying to get them to stand down, rather, he was on the phone with Republican Congressmen (who were in lock down facing threats to their lives!) pressuring them to stop the vote count, which would be illegal obviously. The President - at that moment - was a willing participant , along with the protesters, in an attempt to overthrow the Republic - which is a coup. This is Standard Authoritarian Playbook, it happens all the time, just not in places we pay attention to. I don't believe Trump planned a coup, but he put all the conditions in place and lit the match, and when it started to burn, he acted directly against his responsibility as President, and instead, acted with the insurrectionists. If, at the moment of insurrection, he were to have stepped in and quashed it all - which he could have done but chose not to - then the argument could be made that 'he didn't mean it, it just got out of hand'. His statements on Twitter were a primary vehicle for this insurrection ergo, a ban, which as Jack says ... 'is complicated'. No doubt. And of course there's hypocrisy and bias with him and the rest of social media.
neartheplain 6y ago
Bail funds are a great example of non-profits with bad incentive structures. In Portland, when bail money is returned it goes directly to the person arrested, not the bail fund that paid it out. If that bail was paid by a fund like Defense Fund PDX which raised over $100k this summer, the arrestee tends to just pocket the money [0][1]. When a permissive DA such as the one in Portland drops most charges against protestors and rioters [2], they are effectively paid (financially incentivized) to protest, riot, and get arrested with zero negative long-term consequences. One Portland bail fund raised over a million dollars this summer [3]. One night of setting fires and attacking the police can net an arrestee hundreds or thousands of dollars [4] in bail repayments. If their bail is paid in a timely manner, the arrestee can "earn" even more money the next night. This has the effect of prolonging the violent sort of protests we have seen in the Portland area since June. The effect is not obvious to well-intentioned bail fund donors, who in the best case simply wish to support peaceful protest. When these bail funds are run by the arrestees and their friends, or by people who understand the violent feedback loop and seek to sustain it, the ethical problems inherent to this system become even more pronounced. [0] https://twitter.com/eigenrobot/status/1333353403825545216 https://twitter.com/eigenrobot/status/1333353403825545216 [1] https://twitter.com/DefenseFundPdx/status/1332785565276774401 https://twitter.com/DefenseFundPdx/status/133278556527677440... [2] https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/hundreds-of-portland-protesters-will-see-their-criminal-cases-dropped-as-da-announces-plan-to-recognize-the-right-to-speak.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/hundreds-of-portlan... [3] https://www.gofundme.com/f/pdx-protest-bail-fund https://www.gofundme.com/f/pdx-protest-bail-fund [4] https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/06/whos-behind-the-portland-protest-bail-fund-thats-raised-more-than-500000.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/06/whos-behind-the-port...

by aksss 6y ago

jariel 6y ago

So first - the donation has nothing to do with anything really, it's kind of a side issue. Second, this is not the kind of 'influence peddling' organization you are thinking of. These kinds of orgs. are 'influentially benign', this money is not going to change any votes. You're thinking more of Clinton Foundation or Koch Brothers. If you want to be cynical about it - then I suggest it's more to do with the fact that this 'charity' seems to be the 'Colin Kap Personal Brand Promotion Marketing Vehicle' in the sense it seems to be more about him than ostensibly the people he's trying to help. And of course 'how' he's trying to help seems a little vague. If this were something like 'support underproduction kids by helping them pay for tuition' that would be wonderful. But the real issue is ostensible hypocrisy in Twitter bans, and while I think there is a legit fine line, I don't think Twitter has crossed it. They can make the case for banning Trump and not Kap. Though maybe there's some other tweets they ought to delete as well. To his credit, Dorsey did indicate the difficult challenge in the decision and that this issue certainly is not over. There's a difference between calling for protest of authorities who have killed innocent people, possibly on the basis of racism vs. trying to stop the electoral process, which amounts to a de-facto coup. Those are worlds apart. Those who 'looted Target' I hope can face appropriate charges, those who materially were trying to stop the electoral process as well, and those will be 'much more relevant'.

99_00 6y ago
>trying to stop the electoral process, which amounts to a de-facto coup. Trump followed the electoral process which allows for legal challenges and never called on anyone to do anything illegal.
- jariel 6y ago
  Mafia bosses don't order someone killed either. Nevertheless, there was an insurrection on Capitol Hill whereby a few thousand people did overrun with the intent to stop the electoral process (and with a few others planning much worse). So it's established there was an insurrection in his name. Now: He called people to Capitol Hill from across the country specifically to protest the electoral validation. He publicly stated on many occasions - without factual evidence - that the election was stolen, giving his audience what they believed to be the credibility necessary to make very aggressively legitimate grievance. He condemned his on VP for failing in his duty (to commit sedition?) He called on protesters to 'fight fight fight' He called on them to commit 'political combat'. He called on them to 'walk down Pennsylvania Ave' with him. During the insurrection he didn't call in the National Guard, nor convene with Mike Pence, he wasn't publicly trying to get them to stand down, rather, he was on the phone with Republican Congressmen (who were in lock down facing threats to their lives!) pressuring them to stop the vote count, which would be illegal obviously. The President - at that moment - was a willing participant , along with the protesters, in an attempt to overthrow the Republic - which is a coup. This is Standard Authoritarian Playbook, it happens all the time, just not in places we pay attention to. I don't believe Trump planned a coup, but he put all the conditions in place and lit the match, and when it started to burn, he acted directly against his responsibility as President, and instead, acted with the insurrectionists. If, at the moment of insurrection, he were to have stepped in and quashed it all - which he could have done but chose not to - then the argument could be made that 'he didn't mean it, it just got out of hand'. His statements on Twitter were a primary vehicle for this insurrection ergo, a ban, which as Jack says ... 'is complicated'. No doubt. And of course there's hypocrisy and bias with him and the rest of social media.

neartheplain 6y ago

Bail funds are a great example of non-profits with bad incentive structures. In Portland, when bail money is returned it goes directly to the person arrested, not the bail fund that paid it out. If that bail was paid by a fund like Defense Fund PDX which raised over $100k this summer, the arrestee tends to just pocket the money [0][1]. When a permissive DA such as the one in Portland drops most charges against protestors and rioters [2], they are effectively paid (financially incentivized) to protest, riot, and get arrested with zero negative long-term consequences. One Portland bail fund raised over a million dollars this summer [3]. One night of setting fires and attacking the police can net an arrestee hundreds or thousands of dollars [4] in bail repayments. If their bail is paid in a timely manner, the arrestee can "earn" even more money the next night. This has the effect of prolonging the violent sort of protests we have seen in the Portland area since June. The effect is not obvious to well-intentioned bail fund donors, who in the best case simply wish to support peaceful protest. When these bail funds are run by the arrestees and their friends, or by people who understand the violent feedback loop and seek to sustain it, the ethical problems inherent to this system become even more pronounced. [0] https://twitter.com/eigenrobot/status/1333353403825545216 https://twitter.com/eigenrobot/status/1333353403825545216 [1] https://twitter.com/DefenseFundPdx/status/1332785565276774401 https://twitter.com/DefenseFundPdx/status/133278556527677440... [2] https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/hundreds-of-portland-protesters-will-see-their-criminal-cases-dropped-as-da-announces-plan-to-recognize-the-right-to-speak.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/hundreds-of-portlan... [3] https://www.gofundme.com/f/pdx-protest-bail-fund https://www.gofundme.com/f/pdx-protest-bail-fund [4] https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/06/whos-behind-the-portland-protest-bail-fund-thats-raised-more-than-500000.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/06/whos-behind-the-port...