3 ms·

> This software is working exactly as it was designed to. Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. I mean: - It's

> This software is working exactly as it was designed to. Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. I mean: - It's fundamental meant to manipulate people. - It's easy to abuse and not really possible to control. - Discriminatory micro advertisement, weather on a gender, race, religion or similar basis are pretty common for affected people, but at the same time hard to detect for Facebook or any control organization. - Category combinations which indirectly target addicts are repeatedly used to target them with ad's promoting what this people are addicted to, e.g. gambling. - *The value it provides for the consumer is questionable.* - *The value it provides for a ethnically acceptable free marked are questionable.* - As far as I can tell the only ones noticeable profiting (and as such majorly losing out from a ban) from it are such which act without any regard for the health and dignity/well being of the consumer and society in total (well and big ad platforms).

captain_price7 6y ago
> Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. Any site that doesn't allow opting out of micro targeting should be banned by government.
- ouid 6y ago
  The gulf between opt out and opt in is enormous, and the entire problem. Opt out is not informed consent.
ghostbrainalpha 6y ago
Micro Targeting can absolutely be abused and you have done a good job outlining the dark side of targeting. But to say nothing would be lost from banning it because its always used without regard for health and dignity is way to far. Brands like Zappos Adaptive which sells adult shoes that don't need to be tied to people with Autism. Its very hard to do this kind of sales without targeting people affected by disability. The same goes for companies innovating in Wheelchairs, diabetes care, etc..
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  Would "people who bought this book also bought books X,Y,Z" count as microtargeting? Because I actually find these recommendations valuable.
  - hnick 6y ago
    I think it would, and it's in a similar category to YouTube constructing an alternate reality based on videos I watched. The difference is that it takes longer (and I personally have to overcome more inertia) to read a book than to binge watch outrage media or something on YouTube.
  - dathinab 6y ago
    I think we might need to differ between advertisers choosing the micro targets and automatic context dependent microtargeting . And for the later we probably would need to differentiate between basing the automatic general purpose targeting based on the current context (the site you are on + what subsection of the site you are on + what you have in your shopping car and similar) with the actual context + history + ML based micro categorization. In general what I am against is advertisements where - the advertiser can choose targets based on too fine grained categories (micro categories) - people get classified with too fine grained categories (Both points are mostly the same.) So "people who bought this book also bought books X,Y,Z" is IMHO fine, even if it can sometime lead to bad situations as it can be abused much less. (EDIT: But that partially because it shows real products, "people who have seen XY news also see Z news" would be a different thing.)
threatofrain 6y ago
> It's fundamental meant to manipulate people. Manipulation implies that you're lying to people to get them to buy things, but is it easy to make that argument for FB? What would be the leading argument here? And why should we think that automated processes tend towards manipulation (lying) as a strategy in the marketplace?
- ceph_ 6y ago
  > Manipulation implies that you're lying to people No it means you are trying to change their behavior, usually in an unscrupulous way. These ads aren't lying. But they are certainly pushing a narrative. Which at best, is normalizing the violent actions taken. And at worst, is recruiting people for that cause.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- megous 6y ago
  How does manipulation imply lying? When you're manipulating someone you're trying to change their behavior from something the might not want to do to something you want them to do. You don't need to lie to do that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

captain_price7 6y ago

> Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. Any site that doesn't allow opting out of micro targeting should be banned by government.

ouid 6y ago
The gulf between opt out and opt in is enormous, and the entire problem. Opt out is not informed consent.

ghostbrainalpha 6y ago

Micro Targeting can absolutely be abused and you have done a good job outlining the dark side of targeting. But to say nothing would be lost from banning it because its always used without regard for health and dignity is way to far. Brands like Zappos Adaptive which sells adult shoes that don't need to be tied to people with Autism. Its very hard to do this kind of sales without targeting people affected by disability. The same goes for companies innovating in Wheelchairs, diabetes care, etc..

inglor_cz 6y ago
Would "people who bought this book also bought books X,Y,Z" count as microtargeting? Because I actually find these recommendations valuable.
- hnick 6y ago
  I think it would, and it's in a similar category to YouTube constructing an alternate reality based on videos I watched. The difference is that it takes longer (and I personally have to overcome more inertia) to read a book than to binge watch outrage media or something on YouTube.
- dathinab 6y ago
  I think we might need to differ between advertisers choosing the micro targets and automatic context dependent microtargeting . And for the later we probably would need to differentiate between basing the automatic general purpose targeting based on the current context (the site you are on + what subsection of the site you are on + what you have in your shopping car and similar) with the actual context + history + ML based micro categorization. In general what I am against is advertisements where - the advertiser can choose targets based on too fine grained categories (micro categories) - people get classified with too fine grained categories (Both points are mostly the same.) So "people who bought this book also bought books X,Y,Z" is IMHO fine, even if it can sometime lead to bad situations as it can be abused much less. (EDIT: But that partially because it shows real products, "people who have seen XY news also see Z news" would be a different thing.)

threatofrain 6y ago

> It's fundamental meant to manipulate people. Manipulation implies that you're lying to people to get them to buy things, but is it easy to make that argument for FB? What would be the leading argument here? And why should we think that automated processes tend towards manipulation (lying) as a strategy in the marketplace?

ceph_ 6y ago
> Manipulation implies that you're lying to people No it means you are trying to change their behavior, usually in an unscrupulous way. These ads aren't lying. But they are certainly pushing a narrative. Which at best, is normalizing the violent actions taken. And at worst, is recruiting people for that cause.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
megous 6y ago
How does manipulation imply lying? When you're manipulating someone you're trying to change their behavior from something the might not want to do to something you want them to do. You don't need to lie to do that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]