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> Consider that at 14nm+++++, Intel still manages to outpace AMD with its 7nm CPUs and latest architecture. AMD competes mainly on price, which is not a great

> Consider that at 14nm+++++, Intel still manages to outpace AMD with its 7nm CPUs and latest architecture. AMD competes mainly on price, which is not a great position to be in. Intel's profit margins are massively better. Have you been living under a rock for this past year? This is not true. AMD is beating Intel in performance in every market segment right now.

incrudible 6y ago
I am talking about the latest Intel architecture which admittedly has not shipped on the Desktop yet, so benchmarks are not independently verified. If you look at the mobile chips that did ship on 10nm, Intel is ahead as well.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Intel's "latest" architecture is basically the same Skylake from 2015 except they just pulled a Prescott with it and simply cranked up the power and heat until it reaches a desired x% extra performance over last gen.
  - incrudible 6y ago
    Preliminary benchmarks show them surpassing Zen3 on the desktop with only a slight frequency bump.
    - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
      Only in cherry-picked benchmarks that already favored Intel on their past-gen chips. If you assume that performance is improved everywhere evenly, and extrapolate from those prerelease benchmarks and existing benchmarks for their older chips, their new chip will end up being ~5% slower than Zen3 overall. Also, never compare chips that are actually on the market to unreleased ones. Zen3 might well get a small frequency boost when Intel finally releases Rocket Lake.
      - incrudible 6y ago
        My point is not that Intel is "crushing" AMD or anything, but that they manage to outpace (or at least keep pace with) AMD on a much larger node. > Also, never compare chips that are actually on the market to unreleased ones. Watch me do it: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rocket-Lake-S-vs-Zen-3-Geekbench-single-core-charts-headed-by-four-Ryzen-5000-parts-but-the-Intel-Core-i9-11900K-and-i7-11700K-should-rain-on-that-parade.514344.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rocket-Lake-S-vs-Zen-3-Geekben... Am I going to gamble my house on this being true? Of course not. We're having a nerdy discussion on IPC. It doesn't really matter either way. Perhaps you're right and these chips won't "improve evenly" across all benchmarks, but then again nobody has "even" workloads. Rocket-Lake-S has some machine learning acceleration that's going to be useless for many people, valuable for others. It has a GPU onboard, which can come in handy. I'm personally interested in AVX-512. No, I don't need to know why you think AVX-512 sucks.
        Tuna-Fish 6y ago
        > My point is not that Intel is "crushing" AMD or anything, but that they manage to outpace (or at least keep pace with) AMD on a much larger node. This is an entirely valid position, and I agree that it bodes well for Intel that they are able to do this. However, it is a very different statement from your original: > Consider that at 14nm+++++, Intel still manages to outpace AMD with its 7nm CPUs and latest architecture. AMD competes mainly on price, which is not a great position to be in. Intel's profit margins are massively better. AMD is in no way "competing mainly on price". In fact, if you look at prices on the market instead of MSRP, they are generally the more expensive option right now, and are still sold out on most models almost everywhere.
        incrudible 6y ago
        It was a mistake not to make clear that I am talking about CPUs that have not shipped yet. Otherwise, I do not see any issue with what I said. I am looking at Intel as a company, and there I see massively better profit margins. Street prices may not reflect this during periods of shortages, but it is the dealers who are pocketing that difference, not AMD.
fvv 6y ago
Zen3 ipc is higher than ice lake , and profit margin will be higher too , amd just increased prices and still sell out, 10nmsuperfin perfectly comparable to tsmc 7nm

incrudible 6y ago

I am talking about the latest Intel architecture which admittedly has not shipped on the Desktop yet, so benchmarks are not independently verified. If you look at the mobile chips that did ship on 10nm, Intel is ahead as well.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Intel's "latest" architecture is basically the same Skylake from 2015 except they just pulled a Prescott with it and simply cranked up the power and heat until it reaches a desired x% extra performance over last gen.
- incrudible 6y ago
  Preliminary benchmarks show them surpassing Zen3 on the desktop with only a slight frequency bump.
  - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
    Only in cherry-picked benchmarks that already favored Intel on their past-gen chips. If you assume that performance is improved everywhere evenly, and extrapolate from those prerelease benchmarks and existing benchmarks for their older chips, their new chip will end up being ~5% slower than Zen3 overall. Also, never compare chips that are actually on the market to unreleased ones. Zen3 might well get a small frequency boost when Intel finally releases Rocket Lake.
    - incrudible 6y ago
      My point is not that Intel is "crushing" AMD or anything, but that they manage to outpace (or at least keep pace with) AMD on a much larger node. > Also, never compare chips that are actually on the market to unreleased ones. Watch me do it: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rocket-Lake-S-vs-Zen-3-Geekbench-single-core-charts-headed-by-four-Ryzen-5000-parts-but-the-Intel-Core-i9-11900K-and-i7-11700K-should-rain-on-that-parade.514344.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rocket-Lake-S-vs-Zen-3-Geekben... Am I going to gamble my house on this being true? Of course not. We're having a nerdy discussion on IPC. It doesn't really matter either way. Perhaps you're right and these chips won't "improve evenly" across all benchmarks, but then again nobody has "even" workloads. Rocket-Lake-S has some machine learning acceleration that's going to be useless for many people, valuable for others. It has a GPU onboard, which can come in handy. I'm personally interested in AVX-512. No, I don't need to know why you think AVX-512 sucks.
      - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
        > My point is not that Intel is "crushing" AMD or anything, but that they manage to outpace (or at least keep pace with) AMD on a much larger node. This is an entirely valid position, and I agree that it bodes well for Intel that they are able to do this. However, it is a very different statement from your original: > Consider that at 14nm+++++, Intel still manages to outpace AMD with its 7nm CPUs and latest architecture. AMD competes mainly on price, which is not a great position to be in. Intel's profit margins are massively better. AMD is in no way "competing mainly on price". In fact, if you look at prices on the market instead of MSRP, they are generally the more expensive option right now, and are still sold out on most models almost everywhere.
        incrudible 6y ago
        It was a mistake not to make clear that I am talking about CPUs that have not shipped yet. Otherwise, I do not see any issue with what I said. I am looking at Intel as a company, and there I see massively better profit margins. Street prices may not reflect this during periods of shortages, but it is the dealers who are pocketing that difference, not AMD.

fvv 6y ago

Zen3 ipc is higher than ice lake , and profit margin will be higher too , amd just increased prices and still sell out, 10nmsuperfin perfectly comparable to tsmc 7nm