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> 9Front And Surprise Auschwitz What the actual fuck. At first I thought this was some joke in poor taste by the blog post, but in fact he is referring to the

> 9Front And Surprise Auschwitz What the actual fuck. At first I thought this was some joke in poor taste by the blog post, but in fact he is referring to the use of Nazi death camp imagery in the documentation. That's not cool.

NelsonMinar 6y ago
It's hideous. What the fuck is wrong with people?
- iuguy 6y ago
  ahem http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/log?rev=mein+kampf http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/log?rev=mein+kampf
  - ori_b 6y ago
    Yes, the person who committed it was a high school teenager at the time. Maturity and good taste isn't generally associated with high schoolers. It was tasteless. And it was reverted. My family is full of holocaust survivors. My grandmother passed through Auschwitz. 10 of her 12 siblings did not. I am fairly heavily involved in 9front. I have never had any issues with anyone in that project -- certainly none to do with antisemitism.
    - iuguy 6y ago
      If you feel you have to tell me that your family is full of holocaust survivors before you tell me you're involved in a software distro, something is very wrong. This is software not biker gangs. I'm not judging you. I hope you understand that. One or two other people maybe, but not you. I've not called anyone a Nazi. I didn't commit Mein Kampf twice. I didn't put an Auschwitz joke in the manual. Neither did you. It was this[1] that convinced me to spend time with Plan 9. I've spoken to some really nice 9Front users and contributors. I've read and watched cool things by people like mycroft, Sigrid and yourself. Then at the other end of the scale there's this: ahem http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/log?rev=rails.jpg http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/log?rev=rails.jpg And for shits and giggles, this: ahem http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/rev/2c6ef22d5a74 http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/rev/2c6ef22d5a74 For every person you explain to, there are many more who just call you all a bunch of Nazis. People have slid into my DMs and just outright openly called everyone in 9Front nazis for over a week now. The idea is ridiculous yet it persists. That's obviously not the association you want for yourself, but it's one you're aware of or you wouldn't be here. It's happening right now here: https://mastodon.social/@Ludonaut/105555232277945673 https://mastodon.social/@Ludonaut/105555232277945673 - that's just one place, there are plenty others. My Signal's full of it, Telegram too. Memes, some pretty personal, the lot. You can't whack-a-mole that association. All you can do is choose to change it or choose to own it. EDIT: Seems I can't reply to Ori directly so here it is: No I'm not insinuating you're a Nazi sympathizer. I wouldn't. The whole point of my reply is that you are not and I know you are not but lots of others won't draw that conclusion and you won't be able to correct them all. If I thought you were involved in that sort of shit I'd come straight out with it. Ok Ori, you believe what you want to believe. I've been 100% up-front about everything so far. If you're relying on insinuations then you're reading into stuff that just isn't there. You're the third 9Front guy to come at me, and I'm done trying to be polite about it so I'll withdraw. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3GuoaxRNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3GuoaxRNM
      - ori_b 6y ago
        > If you feel you have to tell me that your family is full of holocaust survivors before you tell me you're involved in a software distro, something is very wrong. Let me put it another way: You are insinuating that I'm a nazi sympathizer. That is indeed very wrong, and the statement above is directly related to the insinuation I was responding to. Please state your insinuations out loud. Then get fucked. Edit: > EDIT: Seems I can't reply to Ori directly so here it is: No I'm not insinuating you're a Nazi sympathizer. I wouldn't. If I thought you were I'd come straight out with it. Great. You're implying something you don't even claim to believe. Take some responsibility for your words. If you think the accusations are "ridiculous", why are you doing your best to amplify them? You are being incredibly slimy.
        deleted 6y ago
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      - deleted 6y ago
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bzb6 6y ago
Not everybody shares your sensibilities.
- ThankYouBernard 6y ago
  yes most people don't have the sensibility of a Nazi
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
4bpp 6y ago
Considering the ubiquitous Touhou references (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cirno#Personality https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cirno#Personality), I would assume that the project is at least 4chan-adjacent (or at least adjacent to the culture of 4chan's early days; the demographic transition from people pretending to be [bad thing] to actual [bad thing] people who are not in on the joke is a matter of internet lore). This makes it quite likely that this is exactly the reaction the authors were hoping for, with the intention of keeping out the first group in the blog post's trichotomy ("Those who won’t use 9Front because of it, those whose choice is unaffected by it, and those feeling welcomed by it.").
- MisterTea 6y ago
  > (or at least adjacent to the culture of 4chan's early days; ... From what I hear /g/ was a decent place to talk technology around 2010 or whenever and this is where the gross chan culture supposedly comes from.
- seabird 6y ago
  I would go so far as to say that 9front's marketing works to try and attract only the second group in that trichotomy. The first page is footed with BLM and antifascist logos. Plan 9 is everything an old-school 4chan technology poster is interested in, and they're hard-wired to offend through whatever means possible.
khm 6y ago
Hi. I made that image. I was searching for 'rails documentation' and accidentally hit the 'Images' link. That photo was in the first page of results. Its presence was so absurd and out of place that I felt like I had to do something with it. It was made in an era before actual Nazis had re-entered the public dialogue, so it felt like Google Image Search was denigrating Ruby on Rails by including this sort of imagery in the results. Generally speaking, 4chan types read it as an endorsement, which sucks. More recently, people who are not assholes have also begun to read it as an endorsement, which is even more unfortunate. I had a conversation on Mastodon with the author, where I explained some of this, but the author's followers filled my client with Nazi (and more) accusations, and then the author started demanding names of responsible parties and I didn't really feel like he was engaging in good faith. Probably could have gone better, but here we are. This whole sort of thing has led to much confusion, which is why over the years the project home page has sprouted explicit anti-Nazi and Black Lives Matter links. As far as I am aware, there are no anti-semites (or other brands of racist) involved in the project. and an edit: A couple of replies here ask the reasonable question: "why not just remove the image?" Bluntly, if we removed everything that confused or angered people, it would be a full-time job. It's more likely that we'll include some version of the above in order to further clarify our rejection of Nazi values and provide the context that was missing. Besides, if we just delete the damn thing then the next message will be "9front devs are secret Nazis, look at archive.org" -- we've been down this road before with other contentious content.
- iuguy 6y ago
  > then the author started demanding names of responsible parties Kurt, so good to see you again! As I said in: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510076754785649 https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510076754785649 > Was it Uriel that committed that section? I could kind of understand not wanting to remove it if it was. If that's the case then context in the FQA might be helpful for people who stumble across it. That's hardly demanding names, unless you're referring to somewhere else in the convo. In that case please feel free to point it out.
  - khm 6y ago
    There's also this: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510025405203167 https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510025405203167 which I interpreted as some kind of invitation to disavow the project and name 'the real villains' or something, which would of course be the same deal. The whole vibe just felt like it was more about who did what than what any of it was supposed to mean, which isn't really how we operate in general.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Volt 6y ago
"It's just their humour"
enw 6y ago
This sort of humor was/is very common on 4chan and similar imageboards such as Krautchan.

NelsonMinar 6y ago

It's hideous. What the fuck is wrong with people?

iuguy 6y ago
ahem http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/log?rev=mein+kampf http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/log?rev=mein+kampf
- ori_b 6y ago
  Yes, the person who committed it was a high school teenager at the time. Maturity and good taste isn't generally associated with high schoolers. It was tasteless. And it was reverted. My family is full of holocaust survivors. My grandmother passed through Auschwitz. 10 of her 12 siblings did not. I am fairly heavily involved in 9front. I have never had any issues with anyone in that project -- certainly none to do with antisemitism.
  - iuguy 6y ago
    If you feel you have to tell me that your family is full of holocaust survivors before you tell me you're involved in a software distro, something is very wrong. This is software not biker gangs. I'm not judging you. I hope you understand that. One or two other people maybe, but not you. I've not called anyone a Nazi. I didn't commit Mein Kampf twice. I didn't put an Auschwitz joke in the manual. Neither did you. It was this[1] that convinced me to spend time with Plan 9. I've spoken to some really nice 9Front users and contributors. I've read and watched cool things by people like mycroft, Sigrid and yourself. Then at the other end of the scale there's this: ahem http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/log?rev=rails.jpg http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/log?rev=rails.jpg And for shits and giggles, this: ahem http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/rev/2c6ef22d5a74 http://code.9front.org/hg/fqa.9front.org/rev/2c6ef22d5a74 For every person you explain to, there are many more who just call you all a bunch of Nazis. People have slid into my DMs and just outright openly called everyone in 9Front nazis for over a week now. The idea is ridiculous yet it persists. That's obviously not the association you want for yourself, but it's one you're aware of or you wouldn't be here. It's happening right now here: https://mastodon.social/@Ludonaut/105555232277945673 https://mastodon.social/@Ludonaut/105555232277945673 - that's just one place, there are plenty others. My Signal's full of it, Telegram too. Memes, some pretty personal, the lot. You can't whack-a-mole that association. All you can do is choose to change it or choose to own it. EDIT: Seems I can't reply to Ori directly so here it is: No I'm not insinuating you're a Nazi sympathizer. I wouldn't. The whole point of my reply is that you are not and I know you are not but lots of others won't draw that conclusion and you won't be able to correct them all. If I thought you were involved in that sort of shit I'd come straight out with it. Ok Ori, you believe what you want to believe. I've been 100% up-front about everything so far. If you're relying on insinuations then you're reading into stuff that just isn't there. You're the third 9Front guy to come at me, and I'm done trying to be polite about it so I'll withdraw. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3GuoaxRNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3GuoaxRNM
    - ori_b 6y ago
      > If you feel you have to tell me that your family is full of holocaust survivors before you tell me you're involved in a software distro, something is very wrong. Let me put it another way: You are insinuating that I'm a nazi sympathizer. That is indeed very wrong, and the statement above is directly related to the insinuation I was responding to. Please state your insinuations out loud. Then get fucked. Edit: > EDIT: Seems I can't reply to Ori directly so here it is: No I'm not insinuating you're a Nazi sympathizer. I wouldn't. If I thought you were I'd come straight out with it. Great. You're implying something you don't even claim to believe. Take some responsibility for your words. If you think the accusations are "ridiculous", why are you doing your best to amplify them? You are being incredibly slimy.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

bzb6 6y ago

Not everybody shares your sensibilities.

ThankYouBernard 6y ago
yes most people don't have the sensibility of a Nazi
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

4bpp 6y ago

Considering the ubiquitous Touhou references (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cirno#Personality https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cirno#Personality), I would assume that the project is at least 4chan-adjacent (or at least adjacent to the culture of 4chan's early days; the demographic transition from people pretending to be [bad thing] to actual [bad thing] people who are not in on the joke is a matter of internet lore). This makes it quite likely that this is exactly the reaction the authors were hoping for, with the intention of keeping out the first group in the blog post's trichotomy ("Those who won’t use 9Front because of it, those whose choice is unaffected by it, and those feeling welcomed by it.").

MisterTea 6y ago
> (or at least adjacent to the culture of 4chan's early days; ... From what I hear /g/ was a decent place to talk technology around 2010 or whenever and this is where the gross chan culture supposedly comes from.
seabird 6y ago
I would go so far as to say that 9front's marketing works to try and attract only the second group in that trichotomy. The first page is footed with BLM and antifascist logos. Plan 9 is everything an old-school 4chan technology poster is interested in, and they're hard-wired to offend through whatever means possible.

khm 6y ago

Hi. I made that image. I was searching for 'rails documentation' and accidentally hit the 'Images' link. That photo was in the first page of results. Its presence was so absurd and out of place that I felt like I had to do something with it. It was made in an era before actual Nazis had re-entered the public dialogue, so it felt like Google Image Search was denigrating Ruby on Rails by including this sort of imagery in the results. Generally speaking, 4chan types read it as an endorsement, which sucks. More recently, people who are not assholes have also begun to read it as an endorsement, which is even more unfortunate. I had a conversation on Mastodon with the author, where I explained some of this, but the author's followers filled my client with Nazi (and more) accusations, and then the author started demanding names of responsible parties and I didn't really feel like he was engaging in good faith. Probably could have gone better, but here we are. This whole sort of thing has led to much confusion, which is why over the years the project home page has sprouted explicit anti-Nazi and Black Lives Matter links. As far as I am aware, there are no anti-semites (or other brands of racist) involved in the project. and an edit: A couple of replies here ask the reasonable question: "why not just remove the image?" Bluntly, if we removed everything that confused or angered people, it would be a full-time job. It's more likely that we'll include some version of the above in order to further clarify our rejection of Nazi values and provide the context that was missing. Besides, if we just delete the damn thing then the next message will be "9front devs are secret Nazis, look at archive.org" -- we've been down this road before with other contentious content.

iuguy 6y ago
> then the author started demanding names of responsible parties Kurt, so good to see you again! As I said in: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510076754785649 https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510076754785649 > Was it Uriel that committed that section? I could kind of understand not wanting to remove it if it was. If that's the case then context in the FQA might be helpful for people who stumble across it. That's hardly demanding names, unless you're referring to somewhere else in the convo. In that case please feel free to point it out.
- khm 6y ago
  There's also this: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510025405203167 https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510025405203167 which I interpreted as some kind of invitation to disavow the project and name 'the real villains' or something, which would of course be the same deal. The whole vibe just felt like it was more about who did what than what any of it was supposed to mean, which isn't really how we operate in general.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Volt 6y ago

"It's just their humour"

enw 6y ago

This sort of humor was/is very common on 4chan and similar imageboards such as Krautchan.