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This definitely is a feature. You can use sandboxing if you want to. See kernel namespaces (used by Docker), Ubuntu's snaps, etc. But breaking almost all softw

by oauea 6y ago

This definitely is a feature. You can use sandboxing if you want to. See kernel namespaces (used by Docker), Ubuntu's snaps, etc. But breaking almost all software by default just because some incompetent users keep choosing to install malware is not a great strategy.

sneak 6y ago
It isn't the dichotomy you set it up to be. macOS solved this without "breaking almost all software by default" using per-app, per-directory permissions for the file system, over and above the decades-old POSIX file modes model. You're making excuses for the lack of security innovation on Linux workstations. They've fallen behind.
- oauea 6y ago
  To be frank, Mac is not a model I would want to follow. I am the sysadmin and owner of my machine, not Apple or some other organization. They have no business telling me what software I can and can't run, or what files that software can access.
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    They do neither.
    - oauea 6y ago
      They most definitely do, using their developer program. Look up Apple vs Epic for a case where they weaponized this.
      - user-the-name 6y ago
        You can run any software you want on macOS. You can't publish any software you want on the App Store.
        oauea 6y ago
        https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_m... > Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, software signed with a new Developer ID certificate and all new or updated kernel extensions must be notarized to run. Beginning in macOS 10.15, all software built after June 1, 2019, and distributed with Developer ID must be notarized So, no. You need Apple's approval to be able to create software that can actually be ran by end-users even if you do not distribute using the App Store.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        First, that is "software signed with a new Developer ID". You can just not sign software and it does not need to be notarised. Second, notarisation is not an "approval". It is a malware scan. The only thing that requires notarisation, which, again, is not "approval", is kernel extensions.
        oauea 6y ago
        How can you notarize your software when apple has suspended your developer account? Would you not say that notarization requires you to have a developer account, which requires Apple's approval?

by oauea 6y ago

sneak 6y ago

It isn't the dichotomy you set it up to be. macOS solved this without "breaking almost all software by default" using per-app, per-directory permissions for the file system, over and above the decades-old POSIX file modes model. You're making excuses for the lack of security innovation on Linux workstations. They've fallen behind.

oauea 6y ago
To be frank, Mac is not a model I would want to follow. I am the sysadmin and owner of my machine, not Apple or some other organization. They have no business telling me what software I can and can't run, or what files that software can access.
- user-the-name 6y ago
  They do neither.
  - oauea 6y ago
    They most definitely do, using their developer program. Look up Apple vs Epic for a case where they weaponized this.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      You can run any software you want on macOS. You can't publish any software you want on the App Store.
      - oauea 6y ago
        https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_m... > Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, software signed with a new Developer ID certificate and all new or updated kernel extensions must be notarized to run. Beginning in macOS 10.15, all software built after June 1, 2019, and distributed with Developer ID must be notarized So, no. You need Apple's approval to be able to create software that can actually be ran by end-users even if you do not distribute using the App Store.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        First, that is "software signed with a new Developer ID". You can just not sign software and it does not need to be notarised. Second, notarisation is not an "approval". It is a malware scan. The only thing that requires notarisation, which, again, is not "approval", is kernel extensions.
        oauea 6y ago
        How can you notarize your software when apple has suspended your developer account? Would you not say that notarization requires you to have a developer account, which requires Apple's approval?