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I'm not sure self awareness is the best way to put it though if they thought they had the blessing and encouragement of the sitting president. That's what makes

I'm not sure self awareness is the best way to put it though if they thought they had the blessing and encouragement of the sitting president. That's what makes this hard to compare to most of the revolutionary uprisings of the past.

rsynnott 6y ago
I mean, even if they had a signed letter from Trump saying "this is bigly good, do this" that doesn't stop it from being super-illegal. He's not a dictator; he can't just give people license to do illegal things. As they should know very well.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I mean, even if they had a signed letter from Trump saying “this is bigly good, do this” that doesn’t stop it from being super-illegal. It can make it impossible to prosecute, because the President is the Chief Executive and ultimately the authority to which all federal law enforcement answers. (1) Honest, even if mistaken, belief that action is taken in cooperation with the government defeats the mental state requirement for most crimes. (2) The doctrine of “entrapment by estoppel” bars criminal conviction where a defendant reasonably relied on misrepresentation of law by an official in undertaking action that is prohibited. (3) The more common doctrine of entrapment bars criminal conviction where a defendant was induced by a government agent to commit a crime and was not otherwise inclined to commit the crime.
- Tarsul 6y ago
  well, as president he could always give them a pardon, couldn't he? (actually, I have no idea for what he could give pardons. And he won't be presdient long enough to do it for those people. But still...)
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    The president can pardon all federal offenses excluding impeachment. Whether or not he can self pardon is an untested question; it’s not exactly clear. Him pardoning the rioters is a nightmare scenario, both politically and for the long term survival of the republic. But the only real solution for this is impeachment and conviction, as generally the pardon power is not subject to judicial review.
ashtonkem 6y ago
We could probably quibble on the precise definition of “revolution”[0], but it sure wouldn’t be the first time one part of a government has riled up a mob to attack another part of the government. The results are usually what you’d enthusiastically call “not a good time”. Seeing the executive attack the legislature with a mob is unusual though, as usually the executive leverages their control of the military in these sorts of self-coups. 0 - While I would argue that installing trump for a second term would constitute a revolution, it’s an interesting question whether or not the rioters saw themselves as revolutionary. Calling 1/6 the new 1776 certainly implies yes, but a lot of them seem to think that they were actually a pro-constitution group there to undo a coup done by “the deep state”. Long story short, it’s complicated.

rsynnott 6y ago

I mean, even if they had a signed letter from Trump saying "this is bigly good, do this" that doesn't stop it from being super-illegal. He's not a dictator; he can't just give people license to do illegal things. As they should know very well.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> I mean, even if they had a signed letter from Trump saying “this is bigly good, do this” that doesn’t stop it from being super-illegal. It can make it impossible to prosecute, because the President is the Chief Executive and ultimately the authority to which all federal law enforcement answers. (1) Honest, even if mistaken, belief that action is taken in cooperation with the government defeats the mental state requirement for most crimes. (2) The doctrine of “entrapment by estoppel” bars criminal conviction where a defendant reasonably relied on misrepresentation of law by an official in undertaking action that is prohibited. (3) The more common doctrine of entrapment bars criminal conviction where a defendant was induced by a government agent to commit a crime and was not otherwise inclined to commit the crime.
Tarsul 6y ago
well, as president he could always give them a pardon, couldn't he? (actually, I have no idea for what he could give pardons. And he won't be presdient long enough to do it for those people. But still...)
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  The president can pardon all federal offenses excluding impeachment. Whether or not he can self pardon is an untested question; it’s not exactly clear. Him pardoning the rioters is a nightmare scenario, both politically and for the long term survival of the republic. But the only real solution for this is impeachment and conviction, as generally the pardon power is not subject to judicial review.

ashtonkem 6y ago

We could probably quibble on the precise definition of “revolution”[0], but it sure wouldn’t be the first time one part of a government has riled up a mob to attack another part of the government. The results are usually what you’d enthusiastically call “not a good time”. Seeing the executive attack the legislature with a mob is unusual though, as usually the executive leverages their control of the military in these sorts of self-coups. 0 - While I would argue that installing trump for a second term would constitute a revolution, it’s an interesting question whether or not the rioters saw themselves as revolutionary. Calling 1/6 the new 1776 certainly implies yes, but a lot of them seem to think that they were actually a pro-constitution group there to undo a coup done by “the deep state”. Long story short, it’s complicated.