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I find it particularly annoying that it inherits almost all of the worst features of WhatsApp which people are supposedly fleeing, such as being completely cent

by cheph 6y ago

I find it particularly annoying that it inherits almost all of the worst features of WhatsApp which people are supposedly fleeing, such as being completely centralized and tied to your phone number.

darkwater 6y ago
People fleeing WhatsApp is basically fleeing from it because it is owned by Facebook. So it's usually for political reasons (especially in the USA) and/or for privacy concerns. A minority of tech-savvy users are leaving it for the reasons you say.
Dumbdo 6y ago
Not exactly sure what you are talking about. People are fleeing from Whatsapp because it's owned by Facebook (which has one of the worst privacy reputations), because it's closed source and because facebook can replace your E2EE private key if they want so the E2EE is pretty useless. Facebook could also use the metadata if they want, which is pretty valuable. Signal on the other hand is a nonprofit run by trusted people like Moxie Marlinspike, it's accessible to casual (non-IT) users as well (unlike XMPP) and it's fully open-source. It also minimizes metadata, like with the Sealed Sender functionality.
- icy 6y ago
  > trusted people like Moxie Marlinspike Just out of curiosity and not challenging: what makes Moxie trustworthy?
  - adfm 6y ago
    His code. Go check it out and decide for yourself. https://github.com/moxie0 https://github.com/moxie0
    - cheph 6y ago
      So if someone can write good code they cannot be malicious? Not sure we are using the same definition of trustworthy.
TheCraiggers 6y ago
I suppose this is a matter of opinion, but for many the worst feature of WhatsApp is the fact Facebook has access to most of your stuff and its E2E encryption barely worked. Signal being centralized and tied to a phone number are design choices to make things easier for users. That's a far cry from the presumed reasons WhatsApp did things. The only reason that Signal has gained what traction it has is because of those features.
rkangel 6y ago
Personally, I think that WhatsApp has an excellent user experience (including their encryption which is fine) and the only reason I am leaving is because of privacy concerns. Signal also has an excellent user experience (much better than I was expecting) and most of the privacy concerns are alleviated. Decentralised would be better, but I have not found Matrix to be a particularly smooth experience.
speedgoose 6y ago
The problem is the lack of alternatives for non-technical people. My grandmother can easily use WhatsApp or Signal.

by cheph 6y ago

I find it particularly annoying that it inherits almost all of the worst features of WhatsApp which people are supposedly fleeing, such as being completely centralized and tied to your phone number.

darkwater 6y ago

People fleeing WhatsApp is basically fleeing from it because it is owned by Facebook. So it's usually for political reasons (especially in the USA) and/or for privacy concerns. A minority of tech-savvy users are leaving it for the reasons you say.

Dumbdo 6y ago

Not exactly sure what you are talking about. People are fleeing from Whatsapp because it's owned by Facebook (which has one of the worst privacy reputations), because it's closed source and because facebook can replace your E2EE private key if they want so the E2EE is pretty useless. Facebook could also use the metadata if they want, which is pretty valuable. Signal on the other hand is a nonprofit run by trusted people like Moxie Marlinspike, it's accessible to casual (non-IT) users as well (unlike XMPP) and it's fully open-source. It also minimizes metadata, like with the Sealed Sender functionality.

icy 6y ago
> trusted people like Moxie Marlinspike Just out of curiosity and not challenging: what makes Moxie trustworthy?
- adfm 6y ago
  His code. Go check it out and decide for yourself. https://github.com/moxie0 https://github.com/moxie0
  - cheph 6y ago
    So if someone can write good code they cannot be malicious? Not sure we are using the same definition of trustworthy.

TheCraiggers 6y ago

I suppose this is a matter of opinion, but for many the worst feature of WhatsApp is the fact Facebook has access to most of your stuff and its E2E encryption barely worked. Signal being centralized and tied to a phone number are design choices to make things easier for users. That's a far cry from the presumed reasons WhatsApp did things. The only reason that Signal has gained what traction it has is because of those features.

rkangel 6y ago

Personally, I think that WhatsApp has an excellent user experience (including their encryption which is fine) and the only reason I am leaving is because of privacy concerns. Signal also has an excellent user experience (much better than I was expecting) and most of the privacy concerns are alleviated. Decentralised would be better, but I have not found Matrix to be a particularly smooth experience.

speedgoose 6y ago

The problem is the lack of alternatives for non-technical people. My grandmother can easily use WhatsApp or Signal.