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> I got here by taking no risk at all. This is the most European thing I've ever heard. Most people would not like to take risks and would not even think about

> I got here by taking no risk at all. This is the most European thing I've ever heard. Most people would not like to take risks and would not even think about stepping outside of their comfort zone. Personally, I think this is the reason why there are less startups in Europe compared to US. No one would like to take a risk unless it's absolutely necessary. > I have worked 20 years in the same job and so have my colleagues. I do not mean to be offensive and I know everyone has their own cup of tea. But 20 years doing the same the job?? This would literally be death to me personally as a software engineer. Changing your job is part of your career growth in-order to expose yourself to new challenges, problems and new environments. Of course this comes with a risk factor and personally, this risk and excitement is what makes life interesting. I would kill my self if I got stuck in the same job for 20 years.

politelemon 6y ago
I can see what you mean, it does however assume that staying in a job is the same as being stuck in a job, doing the exact same thing you were doing 20 years ago - perhaps this assumption is a reflection of US work culture (you tell me, I don't know)? If you have a good job with a stimulating environment, colleagues, and decent pay, then the perception of being stuck does not exist. Over time the role will change to reflect the changing organisation and role.
- sajithdilshan 6y ago
  > Over time the role will change to reflect the changing organisation and role. > perhaps this assumption is a reflection of US work culture (you tell me, I don't know)? I do not know anything about US work culture from first hand experience. I'm a software engineer from Sri Lanka working in Germany as a software engineer. It was my personal opinion and as I've said everyone has their own preference. > Over time the role will change to reflect the changing organisation and role. If the role has evolved, then it will not be the same job you did 'x' number of years ago. But according to original post, OP says "I have worked 20 years in the same job". Maybe I understood it incorrectly, but it seems like the role hasn't evolved or changed at all.
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Yes, sorry, I meant same company. My role of course has changed although I'm still a developer/architect type, it's obviously changing all the time. I have been offered management type roles but consistently rejected them though so it's almost the same "job" too (developer). That my business card might say "Senior developer" or "Architect" doesn't really change what the job is I think.
tiborsaas 6y ago
I'm in the EU, took more risks than most people I know, step out my comfort zone also multiple times. What most people miss is not the willingness, but the safety net. Results? Unimpressive, fails over fails. I know value the steady job I have and I keep tearing myself for not opting for this sooner. I don't know if I would be already burnt out if I haven't tried, but timing wasn't great, that's for sure.
- Winterflow3r 6y ago
  Could you elaborate a bit more on what you tried when you stepped out of your comfort zone?
  - tiborsaas 6y ago
    I pick a few key moments. Moving to the capital from my hometown ($30 in my pocket), abandoning college, start working as a self taught developer, quitting my job to work on a startup, moving abroad to chase another startup dream with $100 in my pocket, later doing the same, but in Germany. Trying to freelance. Then work in education for a programming bootcamp. I can still see some uncomfortable situations ahead of me, but I'm not afraid to embrace them.
kome 6y ago
> Changing your job is part of your career growth in-order to expose yourself to new challenges, problems and new environments. A lot of people prefer work to live, while others prefer live to work. Both strategies are perfectly fine.
- mamon 6y ago
  Yes, but you have to live with the consequences of your life choices. If you just "work to live", then you'll be just an average employee, with average salary. High salaries and other perks are for high performers.
  - oblio 6y ago
    > High salaries and other perks are for high performers. Or for loud mouths with increased tolerance to risk. We like to think that the world is much more meritocratic than it is ("just world hypothesis"). And I say this from the camp I'm describing above.
alkonaut 6y ago
> This is the most European thing I've ever heard. Thank you > This would literally be death to me I think how often you change jobs depends on the challenges and type of work. My first project was over 10 years from start to initial release. I don't think switching jobs is that necessary if you can be challenged in your current job. Ever changing problems are exactly why I'm staying. I tried switching to do some web work in a couple of places, but found that I really hated it and that most things in the "web stack" are just crud and it's really hard to find really hard or complex problems in the space (Where the complexity isn't in something tangential like ops/configuration/scaling...). I'm an engineering/math type person so it's a bit scarce. I keep a constant lookout for new jobs, but I filter out 99% of positions simply because it looks like generic web tech jobs.
trumpeta 6y ago
> I got here by taking no risk at all. > This is the most European thing I've ever heard. Most people would not like to take risks and would not even think about stepping outside of their comfort zone. In some sense this is true, but lets not get carried away. The American Startupism is all about the flash, big growth, big impact, big IPO. In EU you have companies slowly grinding a hard problem for 20 years that also have huge impact but no flashy news. Look at things like vertical farming, ASLR, fintech. Thats all thanks to low risk and stability.
- njanirudh 6y ago
  Once I was told: if you line up 100 Germans and 100 Americans which are on vacation and tell them: the first one to reach the top of that mountain gets a million dollar. 100 Americans run straight up the mountain, 97 die of cold weather or from falling down rocks. But one reaches the top at first. The Germans go back to their hotels, plan the trip, shop the needed equipment and set off according to their planned route and timetables. 99 will get to the top, but no one will get the prize - because the American already has been there... sums it up.
johbjo 6y ago
> No one would like to take a risk unless it's absolutely necessary. It's mostly a rational calculation. Because of crab mentality and stigma of failure, the downside is worse in Europe. The expected value of risk is lower than in America.

politelemon 6y ago

I can see what you mean, it does however assume that staying in a job is the same as being stuck in a job, doing the exact same thing you were doing 20 years ago - perhaps this assumption is a reflection of US work culture (you tell me, I don't know)? If you have a good job with a stimulating environment, colleagues, and decent pay, then the perception of being stuck does not exist. Over time the role will change to reflect the changing organisation and role.

sajithdilshan 6y ago
> Over time the role will change to reflect the changing organisation and role. > perhaps this assumption is a reflection of US work culture (you tell me, I don't know)? I do not know anything about US work culture from first hand experience. I'm a software engineer from Sri Lanka working in Germany as a software engineer. It was my personal opinion and as I've said everyone has their own preference. > Over time the role will change to reflect the changing organisation and role. If the role has evolved, then it will not be the same job you did 'x' number of years ago. But according to original post, OP says "I have worked 20 years in the same job". Maybe I understood it incorrectly, but it seems like the role hasn't evolved or changed at all.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Yes, sorry, I meant same company. My role of course has changed although I'm still a developer/architect type, it's obviously changing all the time. I have been offered management type roles but consistently rejected them though so it's almost the same "job" too (developer). That my business card might say "Senior developer" or "Architect" doesn't really change what the job is I think.

tiborsaas 6y ago

I'm in the EU, took more risks than most people I know, step out my comfort zone also multiple times. What most people miss is not the willingness, but the safety net. Results? Unimpressive, fails over fails. I know value the steady job I have and I keep tearing myself for not opting for this sooner. I don't know if I would be already burnt out if I haven't tried, but timing wasn't great, that's for sure.

Winterflow3r 6y ago
Could you elaborate a bit more on what you tried when you stepped out of your comfort zone?
- tiborsaas 6y ago
  I pick a few key moments. Moving to the capital from my hometown ($30 in my pocket), abandoning college, start working as a self taught developer, quitting my job to work on a startup, moving abroad to chase another startup dream with $100 in my pocket, later doing the same, but in Germany. Trying to freelance. Then work in education for a programming bootcamp. I can still see some uncomfortable situations ahead of me, but I'm not afraid to embrace them.

kome 6y ago

> Changing your job is part of your career growth in-order to expose yourself to new challenges, problems and new environments. A lot of people prefer work to live, while others prefer live to work. Both strategies are perfectly fine.

mamon 6y ago
Yes, but you have to live with the consequences of your life choices. If you just "work to live", then you'll be just an average employee, with average salary. High salaries and other perks are for high performers.
- oblio 6y ago
  > High salaries and other perks are for high performers. Or for loud mouths with increased tolerance to risk. We like to think that the world is much more meritocratic than it is ("just world hypothesis"). And I say this from the camp I'm describing above.

alkonaut 6y ago

> This is the most European thing I've ever heard. Thank you > This would literally be death to me I think how often you change jobs depends on the challenges and type of work. My first project was over 10 years from start to initial release. I don't think switching jobs is that necessary if you can be challenged in your current job. Ever changing problems are exactly why I'm staying. I tried switching to do some web work in a couple of places, but found that I really hated it and that most things in the "web stack" are just crud and it's really hard to find really hard or complex problems in the space (Where the complexity isn't in something tangential like ops/configuration/scaling...). I'm an engineering/math type person so it's a bit scarce. I keep a constant lookout for new jobs, but I filter out 99% of positions simply because it looks like generic web tech jobs.

trumpeta 6y ago

> I got here by taking no risk at all. > This is the most European thing I've ever heard. Most people would not like to take risks and would not even think about stepping outside of their comfort zone. In some sense this is true, but lets not get carried away. The American Startupism is all about the flash, big growth, big impact, big IPO. In EU you have companies slowly grinding a hard problem for 20 years that also have huge impact but no flashy news. Look at things like vertical farming, ASLR, fintech. Thats all thanks to low risk and stability.

njanirudh 6y ago
Once I was told: if you line up 100 Germans and 100 Americans which are on vacation and tell them: the first one to reach the top of that mountain gets a million dollar. 100 Americans run straight up the mountain, 97 die of cold weather or from falling down rocks. But one reaches the top at first. The Germans go back to their hotels, plan the trip, shop the needed equipment and set off according to their planned route and timetables. 99 will get to the top, but no one will get the prize - because the American already has been there... sums it up.

johbjo 6y ago

> No one would like to take a risk unless it's absolutely necessary. It's mostly a rational calculation. Because of crab mentality and stigma of failure, the downside is worse in Europe. The expected value of risk is lower than in America.